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Author Topic: New Albion Recipe - water questions  (Read 3171 times)

Offline anykine

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New Albion Recipe - water questions
« on: July 26, 2018, 07:16:46 am »
New Albion was a beer brewed in Sonoma, California that is heralded as an important beer in the growth of the craft beer movement in the U.S.  Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Albion_Brewing_Company

I’m thinking about brewing the New Albion recipe that user Chino Brews has posted about, using his recipe / notes found posted on Brewer’s Friend: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/84387/new-albion-ale-clone

It is basically a 2 row and Cascade SMaSH.

 I want to replicate the brewery practices as best I can.  I need some help about the water and mash pH.

Chino’s notes say: “The water profile was Napa water hardened with Gypsum to a level of 350PPM hardness, per Don Barkley.”

I live in the Valley of the Moon Water District just outside Sonoma (about the same sources) and my 2015 Ward Labs report shows this:

pH   8.5
TDS Est   183
EC   0.31
Cations   3.4
Anions   3.8
Sodium   22
Calcium   24
Magnesium   16
Potassium   1
Total Hardness   127
Nitrate   0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfur (SO4-S) 5  (x 3 = 15 SO4)
CO3   3.4
HCO3   199
Chloride   5
Total Alkalinity   168
   
Questions:

Would they have added gypsum or calcium chloride, or both?  I assume just gypsum, right?

Using the Bru’n Water spreadsheet, and 100% adding Sonoma water, and this all 2 row grist, I’d have to add so much gypsum and/or CACL2 to lower the mash pH that the hardness goes WAY above the 350 ppm hardness in the recipe notes, what gives?

Keep in mind this was in the 1970’s at the first micro brewery.

I know I could add acid malt or lactic or phosphoric acid but the history does not indicate they used that.

I could dose in RO water but I doubt the brewery had such a set up.

What am I missing?

   


Offline dmtaylor

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Re: New Albion Recipe - water questions
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2018, 07:19:29 am »
Your water is alkaline.  Add some acid.
Dave

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Offline anykine

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Re: New Albion Recipe - water questions
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2018, 07:21:55 am »
Your water is alkaline.  Add some acid.

I normally would.  In the 1970s at the small first craft brewery, would they have added acid?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 07:30:35 am by anykine »

Offline denny

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Re: New Albion Recipe - water questions
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2018, 08:48:55 am »
Your water is alkaline.  Add some acid.

I normally would.  In the 1970s at the small first craft brewery, would they have added acid?

I really doubt they would have used acid, especially considering what I know of New Albion.  Not to mention you really don't know of your water is like theirs was. Just go with gypsum.
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Offline anykine

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Re: New Albion Recipe - water questions
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2018, 09:11:41 am »
Your water is alkaline.  Add some acid.

I normally would.  In the 1970s at the small first craft brewery, would they have added acid?

I really doubt they would have used acid, especially considering what I know of New Albion.  Not to mention you really don't know of your water is like theirs was. Just go with gypsum.

I agree that I shouldn’t assume my Sonoma Water (2018) is the same as their Sonoma water (1970’s), but even if close, the amount of gypsum I’d need to load in there (to lower the mash pH)  would push the hardness way above the 350 ppm that Don Barkley (a brewery there) suggested for hardness.   

That’s what  puzzles me.





Offline mabrungard

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Re: New Albion Recipe - water questions
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2018, 10:32:50 am »
English brewing practice has long employed the addition of water salts to brewing liquor. The recommendation to increase hardness to 350 ppm with gypsum is reasonable and would have the effect of lowering mashing pH. Since brewers of our time have barely recognized the benefits of acid use in brewing, its less likely that the Albion brewers did so. While the resulting pH probably won't be ideal by today's standards, it will still be an acceptable beer. Having tasted the recent recreations of that early IPA (Boston Brewing?), I can imagine that the modest hopping level of that beer could be aided by the hop roughness created by a higher than desirable wort pH.

If you're looking for a semblance of accuracy, I'd go ahead and brew it with the gypsum dose and assess the result.

By the way, that source water could have been pre-boiled to drop some of the alkalinity and a bit of the calcium. That would help with the pH issue.   
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Offline denny

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Re: New Albion Recipe - water questions
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2018, 10:33:40 am »
Your water is alkaline.  Add some acid.

I normally would.  In the 1970s at the small first craft brewery, would they have added acid?

I really doubt they would have used acid, especially considering what I know of New Albion.  Not to mention you really don't know of your water is like theirs was. Just go with gypsum.

I agree that I shouldn’t assume my Sonoma Water (2018) is the same as their Sonoma water (1970’s), but even if close, the amount of gypsum I’d need to load in there (to lower the mash pH)  would push the hardness way above the 350 ppm that Don Barkley (a brewery there) suggested for hardness.   

That’s what  puzzles me.

Don't worry about pH.  I doubt they did.  Alternately, you can do all the water treatment and make a beer like they might make these days.
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Offline anykine

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Re: New Albion Recipe - water questions
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2018, 10:45:41 am »

[...] If you're looking for a semblance of accuracy, I'd go ahead and brew it with the gypsum dose and assess the result. [...] By the way, that source water could have been pre-boiled to drop some of the alkalinity and a bit of the calcium. That would help with the pH issue.

Thanks Martin and Denny.

If I did want to pre-boil the water, how long to boil it  to get the desired effect? 

I agree they didn’t likely use acid and being that British beers appear to have been the inspiration, I can imagine they had their water boiled because their “research” on process may have included that.

I guess I have to decide how “authentic” I want to get.

You are a big help!

Offline denny

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Re: New Albion Recipe - water questions
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2018, 11:08:26 am »
English brewing practice has long employed the addition of water salts to brewing liquor. The recommendation to increase hardness to 350 ppm with gypsum is reasonable and would have the effect of lowering mashing pH. Since brewers of our time have barely recognized the benefits of acid use in brewing, its less likely that the Albion brewers did so. While the resulting pH probably won't be ideal by today's standards, it will still be an acceptable beer. Having tasted the recent recreations of that early IPA (Boston Brewing?), I can imagine that the modest hopping level of that beer could be aided by the hop roughness created by a higher than desirable wort pH.

If you're looking for a semblance of accuracy, I'd go ahead and brew it with the gypsum dose and assess the result.

By the way, that source water could have been pre-boiled to drop some of the alkalinity and a bit of the calcium. That would help with the pH issue.

It could have been, but based on what I know of New Albion I'd be shocked to find they did.
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Offline anykine

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Re: New Albion Recipe - water questions
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2018, 11:43:39 am »

Shocked if they boiled?

Edit:  I see that is what you meant.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 11:51:49 am by anykine »

Offline mabrungard

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Re: New Albion Recipe - water questions
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2018, 11:53:46 am »
Given the water quality, the pre-boiling technique would only have minor effect. So I'm less inclined to believe that they would have pre-boiled.

Regarding pre-boiling duration. It should be almost instantaneous upon reaching boil, but the practical required duration is about 15 minutes. That recommendation is well over 100 years old.
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Offline denny

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Re: New Albion Recipe - water questions
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2018, 12:30:24 pm »
Given the water quality, the pre-boiling technique would only have minor effect. So I'm less inclined to believe that they would have pre-boiled.

Regarding pre-boiling duration. It should be almost instantaneous upon reaching boil, but the practical required duration is about 15 minutes. That recommendation is well over 100 years old.

Martin, I don't know how much you know about New Albion, but I would guess pre boiling never crossed their minds.
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Offline case thrower

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Re: New Albion Recipe - water questions
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2018, 01:41:50 pm »
anykine, you might want to check out brewersdaughter.com.  This is a blog by Renee DeLuca, who is the daughter of Jack McAuliffe, original brewer of New Albion.
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Offline anykine

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Re: New Albion Recipe - water questions
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2018, 01:42:40 pm »
anykine, you might want to check out brewersdaughter.com.  This is a blog by Renee DeLuca, who is the daughter of Jack McAuliffe, original brewer of New Albion.

Thanks.  I will.

Offline anykine

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Re: New Albion Recipe - water questions
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2018, 01:45:03 pm »
Given the water quality, the pre-boiling technique would only have minor effect. So I'm less inclined to believe that they would have pre-boiled.

Regarding pre-boiling duration. It should be almost instantaneous upon reaching boil, but the practical required duration is about 15 minutes. That recommendation is well over 100 years old.

I know the spot in town where the Brewers brewery was.  I assume it was municipal water (given the amount of use) versus well water.  Assuming municipal, I wonder if (how) they removed chlorine?  Would they have used campden / known about it?