Author Topic: Think I'm going back to whole cone  (Read 4691 times)

Offline denny

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Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #75 on: March 13, 2019, 08:03:10 PM »
My key to buying bulk whole cone has been to accept that I'll have no room for meat in my freezer. 

Wait, that's not what I meant to say!  ;D 

Seriously, I just have stopped focusing on specific hop varieties,  and think in terms of categories of hops.  A few varieties can make a wide range of beers.  Even though like MattyAHA I don't make a very wide range of beers either.

My point wasn't as much space related as quality related.  Pellets will keep better longer than whole hops.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #76 on: March 13, 2019, 08:08:06 PM »
My key to buying bulk whole cone has been to accept that I'll have no room for meat in my freezer. 

Wait, that's not what I meant to say!  ;D 

Seriously, I just have stopped focusing on specific hop varieties,  and think in terms of categories of hops.  A few varieties can make a wide range of beers.  Even though like MattyAHA I don't make a very wide range of beers either.

My point wasn't as much space related as quality related.  Pellets will keep better longer than whole hops.
Still, vacuum sealed in the freezer, whole cone is good for longer than it takes me to use them up.  Probably at least a couple years,  I'd think.  I try to buy a year's worth of my go-to varieties.
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Offline denny

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Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #77 on: March 13, 2019, 08:35:32 PM »
My key to buying bulk whole cone has been to accept that I'll have no room for meat in my freezer. 

Wait, that's not what I meant to say!  ;D 

Seriously, I just have stopped focusing on specific hop varieties,  and think in terms of categories of hops.  A few varieties can make a wide range of beers.  Even though like MattyAHA I don't make a very wide range of beers either.

My point wasn't as much space related as quality related.  Pellets will keep better longer than whole hops.
Still, vacuum sealed in the freezer, whole cone is good for longer than it takes me to use them up.  Probably at least a couple years,  I'd think.  I try to buy a year's worth of my go-to varieties.

Doesn't work that way for me, but maybe I have too much hops.  Or don't brew enough.  Or both.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 08:55:59 PM by denny »
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Offline denny

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Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2019, 08:58:56 PM »
yeah Idk, i just like whole hops better, been using pellets for awhile they are great but for me there is something about using the hop in its dried natural state, just feels right, if i make an ipa which i dont anymore i will use pellets but for a pils give me some leaf

I was a "whole hop snob" for maybe the first 10 or so years that I brewed.  Then a guy who is easily the best brewer in our club convinced me to give pellets a try.  After a few brews I decided that was the way for me to go.  For pils and most lagers these days, I'm using the American noble pellets from Yakima Chief.  And I especially prefer pellets for continental hops, since whole hops can suffer so much in the journey.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #79 on: March 13, 2019, 09:29:58 PM »
yeah Idk, i just like whole hops better, been using pellets for awhile they are great but for me there is something about using the hop in its dried natural state, just feels right, if i make an ipa which i dont anymore i will use pellets but for a pils give me some leaf

I was a "whole hop snob" for maybe the first 10 or so years that I brewed.  Then a guy who is easily the best brewer in our club convinced me to give pellets a try.  After a few brews I decided that was the way for me to go.  For pils and most lagers these days, I'm using the American noble pellets from Yakima Chief.  And I especially prefer pellets for continental hops, since whole hops can suffer so much in the journey.
Different strokes... I've given pellets an honest try for a couple of lengthy stretches, because I felt compelled to by the general trend in the market, but just am not happy with them.  Variety available is the only advantage I see, but if I don't like everything else, it's a moot point and, as I said, I can easily find a hop to fit the category.   It isn't snobbery at all, just what I find works best.
Rob Stein
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Offline MattyAHA

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Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #80 on: March 14, 2019, 12:53:58 AM »
i would not call myself a "whole hop snob" i literally brew 3 styles of beer,  i try to brew twice a month, hoping to get that to once a week, so freshness of the hops is not really a issue, buy by the lb, 2 varieties, i prefer whole hops for my purpose, in my situation whole hops don't really have a downside
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 12:57:55 AM by MattyAHA »
Matty


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Offline denny

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Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #81 on: March 14, 2019, 01:19:04 PM »
Didn't mean to implicate that anyone but myself withthe "whole hop snob" comment....
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Offline BrewBama

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Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #82 on: March 14, 2019, 09:43:15 PM »
I decided to replicate the experiment I saw on YouTube. I poured the same amount of boiling water over one ounce of pellets and one ounce of whole leaf. The first noticeable difference is absorption. In an hour I’ll filter thru a coffee filter and see what the resulting tea looks like.

BTW: ordering from Hops Direct was a very positive experience. I ordered Mon at 0830 and the hops were delivered Thurs at noon.





One hr later:

The whole leaf quickly drained thru the filter to fill the stange with a golden tea.

The pellets clogged the filter and took an extraordinarily long time to drain a Golden/Green tea into the stange.

The pellet tea is sharply more bitter than the whole leaf tea.













Edit: overnight the pellet particles settled out resulting in a less green stained golden liquid:



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« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 03:06:20 PM by BrewBama »
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Offline denny

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Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #83 on: March 14, 2019, 09:54:42 PM »
What is that going to prove?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline MattyAHA

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Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #84 on: March 14, 2019, 09:58:33 PM »
I decided to replicate the experiment I saw on YouTube. I poured the same amount of boiling water over one ounce of pellets and one ounce of whole leaf. The first noticeable difference is absorption. In an hour I’ll filter thru a coffee filter and see what the resulting tea looks like.




yeah fact is leaf absorb more wort, can give off more vegetal (which can be preferred), act like filter and its a raw minimally processed ingredient,oils glands have not been broken(to lesser extent), pellets extract better, absorb less but leave more sludge,more uniform extraction but i have a hard time thinking that a minimally processed product is inferior to a higher processed product esp when dealing with essential oils and resins and oils, how can adding whole minimally damaged resin glands be worse then ruptured pulverized glands? Again i have no problem with pellets will still use them again, i love pellets just prefer leaf for what i do

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Offline Robert

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Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #85 on: March 14, 2019, 10:10:24 PM »
Absorption isn't a straightforward thing.   Using pellets, my losses left behind in the sludge layer in the bottom of the kettle are at least a gallon, and I still don't get crystal clear wort into the fermenter.   With whole hops, the losses are less than a quart, and crystal clear wort.  You can drain most of what's in the whole hops right out through them, as they filter. IME, YMMV.
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #86 on: March 14, 2019, 10:27:51 PM »
What is that going to prove?

Am I not allowed to make hop tea Denny?  Do I have something to prove to you?


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Offline denny

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Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #87 on: March 14, 2019, 11:14:20 PM »
What is that going to prove?

Am I not allowed to make hop tea Denny?  Do I have something to prove to you?


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I'm really sorry about how that came off and I hope you'll accept my apology.  It was meant to be a question, not a challenge.  I'm interested in what you're trying to learn and how it will affect the beer flavor.

Again, I apologize and I'll try to be more precise in the future.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline denny

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Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #88 on: March 14, 2019, 11:16:02 PM »
I decided to replicate the experiment I saw on YouTube. I poured the same amount of boiling water over one ounce of pellets and one ounce of whole leaf. The first noticeable difference is absorption. In an hour I’ll filter thru a coffee filter and see what the resulting tea looks like.




yeah fact is leaf absorb more wort, can give off more vegetal (which can be preferred), act like filter and its a raw minimally processed ingredient,oils glands have not been broken(to lesser extent), pellets extract better, absorb less but leave more sludge,more uniform extraction but i have a hard time thinking that a minimally processed product is inferior to a higher processed product esp when dealing with essential oils and resins and oils, how can adding whole minimally damaged resin glands be worse then ruptured pulverized glands? Again i have no problem with pellets will still use them again, i love pellets just prefer leaf for what i do

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Dude, you've been to Hop and Brew School.  You know the truth behind those statements.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #89 on: March 15, 2019, 12:01:47 AM »
What is that going to prove?

Am I not allowed to make hop tea Denny?  Do I have something to prove to you?


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I'm really sorry about how that came off and I hope you'll accept my apology.  It was meant to be a question, not a challenge.  I'm interested in what you're trying to learn and how it will affect the beer flavor.

Again, I apologize and I'll try to be more precise in the future.

I appreciate it. I am simply trying to learn the difference between pellets and whole leaf and, like you say, how one or the other positively affects the beer flavor and/or makes the brewday easier.  I have always used pellets.

The whole leaf tea has a more appealing golden color. The pellet tea has a green hue to the tea — it looks dingy. ...but looks aren’t everything.

As mentioned, the taste of the whole leaf is less harsh, or sharp, than the pellet tea. There was a *very* noticeable sharpness to the pellet tea.

The most remarkable difference was how fast the whole leaf sample drained over the pellet sample.

I am looking forward to brewing with the whole leaf hops, either in combination with pellets or exclusively, to see how it goes.


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“From man’s sweat and God’s love, beer came into the world.” — St. Arnold

Brewed in the Tennessee Valley. Rocket City — Huntsville AL