Author Topic: Think I'm going back to whole cone  (Read 3546 times)

Offline Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3061
    • View Profile
Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2018, 07:09:43 PM »


I thought I knew all the Wyeast strains, but Greenbelt is a new one on me.
Wyeast exclusive with Austin Homebrew Supply, circa 2010, not sure if it is still made. Don’t see it on either site.

Darn you're smart!
[/quote]

I used to be.  ;)

Something’s stick in my memory, and the google helps.
[/quote]

A magician is not supposed to reveal how the trick works.  ;)
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9160
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2018, 01:21:36 AM »


I thought I knew all the Wyeast strains, but Greenbelt is a new one on me.
Wyeast exclusive with Austin Homebrew Supply, circa 2010, not sure if it is still made. Don’t see it on either site.

Darn you're smart!

I used to be.  ;)

Something’s stick in my memory, and the google helps.
[/quote]

A magician is not supposed to reveal how the trick works.  ;)
[/quote]
Watch the hands, not the cards if you want to se the trick. Early 2017 we stopped at LV on our way to Death Valley NP. We saw Penn and Teller the first night out west. They said they did tricks, not magic, try and find the tricks. I may have caught about half of one tick. Damn those guys are good!
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Invertalon

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2018, 01:05:14 PM »
I always brew my house Pils with whole-cone hops… It’s been a while, but just brewed my most recent batch this weekend since getting my pump for recirculation/whirlpool for cooling and such… The clarity on my wort going into the fermenter, thanks to the “filter bed” by the whole cone hops was something I had never, ever seen before. It was clearer than any professionally filtered beer I’ve seen. I never have problems getting crystal clear lagers and such after lagering, but I had never seen wort this brilliant and clear going into that fermenter. Makes me really excited to see what the final result will look like after it’s done being cold conditioned.   

I also find, now having brewed a Pils with pellet hops as well, that I have preferred my whole-flower variants. It could have just been the hop crop I had for my whole-flower vs. pellet, but the taste was more vibrant/bright and complex than the pellet. I use pellets for all my ales, but debating about trying an IPA with whole flower to compare here soon as I had never done that aside from my wet-hop IPA I do every harvest, which will be in two weeks or so here with my Chinook and Cascade plants.

Once I work through my large pellet hop inventory, I may buy more non-German varieties in whole leaf form… Citra and Simcoe, for example. Since I dry hop in the keg at times now, it would be nice to pack my hop canisters with whole flower vs. pellet and have less issue/risk with any particulate going rogue to clog up the poppet or faucet (flow control, sensitive to debris!).

Count me as a fan for whole-flower, though. Storage and wort loss with whole flower does suck, but usually for lagers and stuff that is never a huge deal when only using say 6oz total in the boil for say my Pils. An IPA on the other hand would get pretty bad, though.

Offline James K

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 437
  • Flagstaff, AZ
    • View Profile
Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2018, 05:23:18 AM »
Well peeps, I just picked up two fat sacks of some home grown. Bullion hops.

Not sure the true AA but I’m gonna make a stout with them. Oatmeal stout. If they are true to historical bullion’s I’m estimating 8-9%aa. These are dried and I was gonna use a bag @60 and the other bag at like 20 and @0

Happy hopping.  8)

Vice President of Flagstaff Mountain-Top Mashers
2017 Homebrewer of the year
"One mouth doesn't taste the beer."

Offline dmtaylor

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3557
  • Two Rivers, WI
    • View Profile
    • Manty Malters - Meet the Malters! - Dave Taylor
Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2018, 12:10:46 PM »
Well peeps, I just picked up two fat sacks of some home grown. Bullion hops.

Not sure the true AA but I’m gonna make a stout with them. Oatmeal stout. If they are true to historical bullion’s I’m estimating 8-9%aa. These are dried and I was gonna use a bag @60 and the other bag at like 20 and @0

I'm happy to see you're trying them for bittering.  I think your estimate of 8-ish percent alpha is probably pretty close.  One minor concern is they don't have much brown on them, so possibly slightly underripe... but in Arizona, well maybe nevermind!  I have NO idea what they'd be like used at the end of the boil -- exciting!

Cheers!
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline James K

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 437
  • Flagstaff, AZ
    • View Profile
Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2018, 04:34:18 PM »
I'm happy to see you're trying them for bittering.  I think your estimate of 8-ish percent alpha is probably pretty close.  One minor concern is they don't have much brown on them, so possibly slightly underripe... but in Arizona, well maybe nevermind!  I have NO idea what they'd be like used at the end of the boil -- exciting!

Cheers!

I’m using them tomorrow, so they are dried out already and maybe I’ll just go and leave the bags open until then.
Vice President of Flagstaff Mountain-Top Mashers
2017 Homebrewer of the year
"One mouth doesn't taste the beer."

Offline Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3061
    • View Profile
Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2018, 06:25:11 PM »
Well, I brewed my Oktoberfest this morning, first batch back to whole cone.  Besides the wonderful, elegant flavor and aroma of the wort (and with no addition after the start of the boil, it does have a nice Saaz character showing through, as well as the expected level of bitterness,) it was a joy to see the perfectly crystal-clear, hop-filtered wort going to the fermenter... and with a loss of less than 1 qt to the hops, rather than the gallon or even more I lose with pellets (and the wort still isn't clear then.)  I have to go back and adjust recipes to my old, shorter brew lengths -- bonus is saving malt.  Felt like coming home to my happy place.  If you're happy with pellets, great.  I like it this way. Can't wait for the beer.  Next up is a hoppy, dry hopped pale ale, for contrast.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline James K

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 437
  • Flagstaff, AZ
    • View Profile
Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2018, 10:31:52 PM »
it was a joy to see the perfectly crystal-clear, hop-filtered wort going to the fermenter...
I have to agree. I just used them for the first time and the wort looks really good. First beer I’ve made without using my hop spider and I liked watching the hops circulate around in the boil. I have a filter on the bottom of my kettle and usually, even with the hop spider, there is a brown residue.
This stout looks really clean and I will have to consider buying whole cones from now on if I can get the ones I like. Overall I think my biggest issue would be saving on in contract to buying pellets in bulk.
Vice President of Flagstaff Mountain-Top Mashers
2017 Homebrewer of the year
"One mouth doesn't taste the beer."

Online BrewBama

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2153
    • View Profile
Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #53 on: March 05, 2019, 04:21:56 AM »
Where are you guys getting your whole leaf hops? I am trying to find some Hallertauer Mittelfrueh and Tettnanger Tettnang but everyone seems to be sold out.

Edit:  I found Hallertau but not Tettnang. I suppose 2 (oz) out of three ain’t bad.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 12:27:10 PM by BrewBama »
Huntsville AL

Offline Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3061
    • View Profile
Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2019, 12:33:35 PM »
Where are you guys getting your whole leaf hops? I am trying to find some Hallertauer Mittelfrueh and Tettnanger Tettnang but everyone seems to be sold out.

Edit:  I found Hallertau but not Tettnang. I suppose 2 (oz) out of three ain’t bad.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
My top choice for whole cone, far and away, is Hops Direct /Puterbaugh Farms.  They sell other growers hops as well as their own, including imports.  Looks like they still have Hallertau Tradition (very fine sub for MF, IME,) Hersbrucker and Saaz, in the vein of what you're after.  They do only sell by the full pound.  (Actually their pounds are always a bit overweight.)
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline mabrungard

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2566
  • Water matters!
    • View Profile
    • Bru'n Water
Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2019, 02:57:35 PM »
While the storability of whole hops is poorer than pellets, storing your hops in the freezer does significantly extend their useful life. Buying a pound is no big deal to me. I’ll use them eventually.
Martin B
Carmel, IN

BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/Brun-Water-464551136933908/?ref=bookmarks

Offline Lazy Ant Brewing

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 463
    • View Profile
Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2019, 11:01:28 AM »
I use my homegrowns almost exclusively for bittering.  I use pellets for flavor and aroma.  I could also try doing the reverse.  To be honest, I don't mind much either way and don't necessarily have a preference.  If anything, pellets take up less space, and don't require a bag in the boil, so I see more advantages to pellets.  But they're not huge advantages.
Dave, whole hops want to go commando in the boil.  One of the beauties is, you let them settle, rack from underneath them, and they filter out the break, which will have settled on top of the hops. You also thereby recover more wort, not having to leave a sludge layer in the kettle.

I leave nothing in my kettle.  It all goes into the fermenter.  Anything more from me would be... "too much dicking".

Dave,

So you make no attempt at all to leave the sludge behind?

I'm for making brewing as simple as possible as long as  the beer tastes good eind the end.
It's easier to read brewing books and get information from the forum than to sacrifice virgins to appease the brewing gods when bad beer happens!

Online denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 20320
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2019, 02:53:08 PM »
I use my homegrowns almost exclusively for bittering.  I use pellets for flavor and aroma.  I could also try doing the reverse.  To be honest, I don't mind much either way and don't necessarily have a preference.  If anything, pellets take up less space, and don't require a bag in the boil, so I see more advantages to pellets.  But they're not huge advantages.
Dave, whole hops want to go commando in the boil.  One of the beauties is, you let them settle, rack from underneath them, and they filter out the break, which will have settled on top of the hops. You also thereby recover more wort, not having to leave a sludge layer in the kettle.

I leave nothing in my kettle.  It all goes into the fermenter.  Anything more from me would be... "too much dicking".

Dave,

So you make no attempt at all to leave the sludge behind?

I'm for making brewing as simple as possible as long as  the beer tastes good eind the end.

Like Dave, it all goes into the fermenter.  I think I speak for him when I say that if it had a negative impact on the beer, we wouldn't keep doing it.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Online BrewBama

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2153
    • View Profile
Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2019, 05:07:59 PM »
While I agree I have not noticed a difference in the taste of the beer when whirlpooling and adding the resulting small amount of trub material to the fermenter, I have experienced difficulties with the cleanliness of the yeast cake itself.

I normally don’t harvest yeast, but this winter I had some Imperial brand liquid yeast shipped in and wanted to rinse it for reuse.  What I noticed is the trub dissolved in the wort was so finely incorporated in the cake post fermentation I had a heck of a time getting a clean yeast sample. I finally did and then propagated it up to a desirable pitch size for use it an upcoming brewday.

This yeast rinse episode was such a hassle that it has caused me to explore ways to further clarify the wort going into the fermenter.  Though I’ve added a false bottom to my BK which has helped, I continue to get more material in the post ferment yeast cake than I am wanting.

Therefore, I plan to use at least 33% and hopefully 100% whole leaf hop per brewday for the next few beers to see what the impacts are for myself.

However, I’ve found that actually finding whole leaf hops in varieties required for my planned recipes in usable quantities is the snag in that plan. I’ve discovered a wide variety and availability of pellets sold by the ounce and portions of a pound — whole leaf not so much.

One drawback I’ve read about is wort absorption of the whole leaf. But as I believe Robert found, if the trub is filtered I may actually realize a small net volume gain over leaving wort to hold the trub sludge that collapses when it hits air.  We’ll see.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Huntsville AL

Online denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 20320
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Think I'm going back to whole cone
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2019, 05:28:05 PM »
While I agree I have not noticed a difference in the taste of the beer when whirlpooling and adding the resulting small amount of trub material to the fermenter, I have experienced difficulties with the cleanliness of the yeast cake itself.

I normally don’t harvest yeast, but this winter I had some Imperial brand liquid yeast shipped in and wanted to rinse it for reuse.  What I noticed is the trub dissolved in the wort was so finely incorporated in the cake post fermentation I had a heck of a time getting a clean yeast sample. I finally did and then propagated it up to a desirable pitch size for use it an upcoming brewday.

This yeast rinse episode was such a hassle that it has caused me to explore ways to further clarify the wort going into the fermenter.  Though I’ve added a false bottom to my BK which has helped, I continue to get more material in the post ferment yeast cake than I am wanting.

Therefore, I plan to use at least 33% and hopefully 100% whole leaf hop per brewday for the next few beers to see what the impacts are for myself.

However, I’ve found that actually finding whole leaf hops in varieties required for my planned recipes in usable quantities is the snag in that plan. I’ve discovered a wide variety and availability of pellets sold by the ounce and portions of a pound — whole leaf not so much.

One drawback I’ve read about is wort absorption of the whole leaf. But as I believe Robert found, if the trub is filtered I may actually realize a small net volume gain over leaving wort to hold the trub sludge that collapses when it hits air.  We’ll see.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I have found no benefit to yeast rinsing, so I don't have to worry about a clean yeast sample.  It just doesn't matter of there's trub in it.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell