[Pope of Dope]

Tried to rush my 1.061 OG ale and kegged after 12 days. After the transfer the gravity is still at 1.030. Can I leave it in the keg, releasing co2 daily to finish it up?

[James K]

This is just me, but, I feel like 12 days is ample time for a primary ferment. I also think something went wrong for you. 1.030 is really high. What yeast did you use and how much. Also, what temp?

I’ve turned around higher starting og ipas in les than two weeks and that included time to carbonate. You should be able to secondary ferment in a keg. Just hook up a gas-in quick disconnect that has a tube going to some sani water. I guess if the beer is not active you could purge the keg daily.

[Pope of Dope]

Yeah. Thought it should be done too Having the darndest time lately. Everything was done well from brew day onward. Can't explain it.

[James K]

So. The yeast and ferment temp?

[Pope of Dope]

90 min mash at 150f, two packets of Safale-05 dumped directly into wort at 70f., ferment chamber kept at 67f and then 70f for the last 2 days.

[James K]

Well that seems strange. Usually 05 rips through a beer for me. And like you I don’t rehydrate. You could always try to pitch another package, I guess. Are you sure you’re reading the gravity right? That’s about the only thing I can come up with.

[mabrungard]

Are you sure your mash and wort were really at 150F? Is the thermometer verified? Do you run a RIMS or HERMS and if so, what is the maximum temperature that the wort gets in the recirculation?

With a decent pitch of yeast that has good attenuation capability, the wort is the most likely reason that the fermentation didn't progress as desired.

[MNWayne]

You could put a spunding valve on the gas post and set it to your desired carbonation pressure if you think it might ferment down a bit more.

[flars]

Are your SG measurements taken with a hydrometer?  A refractometer will not be accurate when alcohol is present.

[James K]

Are you sure your mash and wort were really at 150F? Is the thermometer verified? Do you run a RIMS or HERMS and if so, what is the maximum temperature that the wort gets in the recirculation?

With a decent pitch of yeast that has good attenuation capability, the wort is the most likely reason that the fermentation didn't progress as desired.

Are you suggesting too hot? Or too cold? I guess both could be correct? That’s why I’m asking.
Too hot, kill the enzymes. Too cold, doesn’t convert them properly?

[mabrungard]

Are you suggesting too hot? Or too cold? I guess both could be correct? That’s why I’m asking.
Too hot, kill the enzymes. Too cold, doesn’t convert them properly?

Sadly, I've experienced the effects of a RIMS where I failed to monitor the temperature of the wort at the heater outlet. While my mash temperature was fine, the superelevation of the wort temperature at the heater outlet resulted in premature denaturing of the enzymes and the production of a wort that wasn't fully converted.

One bonus: I learned what 'worty' beer tastes like.

[Pope of Dope]

I use a simple voile bag--no RIMS or HERMS but one vessel BIAB. The thermometer in the kettle is a standard dial thermometer that I have been using all along--works fine. 15 gal Spike kettle. All measurements taken with hydrometer, calibrated and adjusted for temp. Things went smoothly for years...then...problems for the past 6-7 brews. I really am stumped here. Started with 9 gals of water, heated to 160f, 15 lbs of grain, mash temp after dough in was 150, did 90 mins covering kettle with a homemade insulation - temp exactly at 149 after the 90. Mashed out at 170 by raising the grain bag a few inches with the pulley and turning back on the propane, raise bag out, vorlauf with a pitcher, then let bag drip from pully and squeeze. Then 60 min boil, whirlpool and immersion chiller. (Never used to use so much grain, or do the 90 min mash, or vorlauf, or even mash out but now am trying everything).

I know, the 15 lbs seems excessive to get to 1.061. This is new too. The only factor that is different is the water. In the past I used tap water or arrowhead with a random pinch of gypsum for hoppy beer, never had a problem except for the mediocre flavors when brewing the lighter or more balanced styles.

HERE IS RECIPE AND MINERAL PROFILE:
GRAINS
5lbs German Munic
7.5 Marris
1 lb 2 Row
1.5 White wheat
.5 Carapils
.25 Crystal 120l
.5 French Kiln Coffee
.5 Crystal 40l

WATER (9 gals of distilled strike--all in boiled down to 6gal)
10.8 Gypsum
3.2 Cal Chlor
5.4 Epsom
.9 Canning salt
2.7 Chalk
1.8ml of 88% Lactic

PROFILE
140 cal
16 mag
18 sodium
240 sulfate
79 chloride
76 bicarb
5.34 pH

I ditched my cooler mash tun and three-tiered system after my last move 4 years ago. I also have less time to brew these days, and had toyed around with BIAB prior, so I told myself that I'd do this until after I got fully unpacked and I never went back (set up and clean up reduced significantly so I can brew and also give my kid a bath and get her ready for bed). Again, things were always just fine with this method, now it's not. Really wish I had an answer here. First I thought it was a bad crush, but this hasn't been a problem in the past -- why now? So I used more grain to experiment and got that 1.061, which isn't great but it would have been fine if I had better attenuation. Then I tried yeast starter and rehydration and then no starter and no rehydration--no difference. So...leads me to believe something is wrong with the sugars I am extracting, and...the only thing that has changed after all these years is in the water. Am I making the water wrong? And if I was making the water wrong or had the wrong pH would this be the result --poor extraction of convertible sugars? I have tested the mash and yup around 5.34. I am using strips here, but come on, time after time the strips show me that mash is close to correct at least. I test 10 mins after dough in, let the sample cool, then test. Don't want to shell out another $100 right now for a fancy pH monitor, and really after this many tests, I presume the strips should be close enough to accurate.

[RC]

Yeah this one's kind of a stumper. Your water composition is fine. And mashing is pretty forgiving. Even if your temp and/or pH was a bit out of the optimum range, you'd still get good conversion. A big clue would be if the unconsumed sugars were mostly dextrins or maltose/maltotriose. If the former, it's a mashing issue (e.g., mashing too hot, maybe thermometer is broken). If the latter, it's a yeast issue. I might suggest you collect a small sample (~200mL) of the underattenuated beer, keep it clean. Make a tiny starter with new, fresh 05 and pitch the starter into the small sample at high krausen. Try to pitch a LOT of yeast into the sample. If there's still simple sugars present, the fresh overpitch should ferment it very quickly. (This is a forced-fermentation sample, but done after the fact.) If not much happens, you have mostly dextrins. You could also try a forced VDK test. If diacetyl is present, this would suggest that the yeast crapped out too soon, leaving simple sugars behind. If it's clean, then the yeast finished their job normally. Good luck.

[mabrungard]

I'm not sure if the chalk addition is doing you any good. In addition, I'm not sure that the grist's acidity is great enough to warrant the need for chalk or another alkali.

Regarding pH strips, there is no telling if your wort pH is anywhere near a desirable level. Hopefully you're not using the regular paper strips since they certainly are worthless in brewing. If you're using the plastic strips, there is hope that they're in the vicinity of a true measurement. However, even the plastic strips are typically off by at least a tenth.

[ynotbrusum]

Assuming your temps are accurate, you may have had a very finicky maris otter?  And you may not have stirred long enough.  I had a very high finishing gravity on a Best Bitter when I mashed around 158F and did not get a good initial stir to allow for full conversion.  But I was using a replica of an 1820’s (very undermodified) English heirloom malt.  Like Martin, I got to taste a very “worty” beer.  I will always mash that malt more carefully in the future, stirring fully and step mashing it and testing for conversion.  The next batch was really expressive and full of character, very much worth the extra care in the process.

Just commiserating, but it could be something along these lines....