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Author Topic: carbonation troubles in keg & bottle etc  (Read 1389 times)

Offline Blue Duck Brew

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carbonation troubles in keg & bottle etc
« on: August 15, 2018, 08:50:06 pm »
Thank you to all for the posts. I have scoured the site trying to find a couple problem solvers. (If I have missed them, I am sorry, there is an encyclopedia of info here) At any rate...

In short-short: I brewed and bottled an IIPA. After a month, no carbonation. It tasted great, but. So I pulled out a keg and painstakingly transferred 50 bottles to the keg. Chilled with 20 psi CO2 for 1 week. Still nothing!

[This is my first post here. When the local shop went out of business, I started looking online and am finding that one more thing has sooo passed me by. Have been brewing since 90, but reading these post, think these are newbie mistakes. I have only kegged very few batches because it turns out teenagers and a keg in the garage make for more teenagers in the garage and no beer. So have bottled since then. Now I am finding what Charlie taught me then (about the only info available) is not as adequate for today as it was 20 years ago, I guess. (As a side note: what would y'all recommend for an updated brew book?)]

I am guessing if I had a bit more yeast prior to bottling that may have helped. Too late. I called the retired/quit owner and asked if I could keg and carbonate or if I should toss it. He thought I wouldn't have problems with CO2. Hasn't worked yet.  I think I have done the basics like checking for leaks, couldn't detect problems but will replace all O rings. Brand new CO2 tank. Find someone/somewhere to test the regulator. There is talk of keg overfill (above the gas in line). Well my gas in line goes all the way to the bottom of the tank. Some folks said use the liquid out line to fill with gas so it fills from the bottom. I figured I may have the same result from the long air line. However, once pouring, air line at the bottom appears to be a problem (back filling with beer?). So what is the correct length for air line inside a keg? Who knows why I never a problem with it before (maybe there isn't one?). Think I may not be giving enough gas and/or time? Is it too late to try to add yeast/sugar and if so, what rate would be appropriate for 5 gal.? What other suggestions might you have to make this batch work? I am thinking O2 (and other details)  may play into the final taste equation after all this messing about, but at this point I just want some bubbles. And to learn from it all.

The amount of info out there is mind boggling (but what is good and what is just highly opinionated like most online posts?). Which leads to other concerns that were never bothersome before. You folks, however, seem to really have it all together and I appreciate it more than you know. Any and all ideas and information will help this dinosaur. I am sure this is only the first dilemma of many and look forward to joining the new breed of home brewers. You folks have some really fancy-schmancy beers and procedures that look like some serious fun.

Thank you all. (Should this be posted in the wrong place, please move or tell me to fix)


Offline James K

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Re: carbonation troubles in keg & bottle etc
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2018, 09:28:43 pm »
This is just my opinion. I think your beer is oxidized now after transferring from bottles to a keg. But. Here is how my set up works. Co2 tank to manifold. Manifold to quick disconnect and to the keg. If I did not have the manifold. It would go co2 tank to quick disconnect, to keg. I have no line in my keg to the bottom and never carbonate from the liquid line.

You may have checked for leaks, but could still have one. What type of kegs do you have ? I have a ball lock and one leaks out of the pressure release valve. That was hard to find and notice. You could also have a leak in your lines allowing your kegs to never pressurize.

After a few days st 20psi you should have bubbles.

I think technically yes. You could pitch some yeast and sugar to carbonate. But I think this is a lost cause at this point.
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Offline jeffy

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Re: carbonation troubles in keg & bottle etc
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2018, 04:18:11 am »
I do not agree that it is a lost cause.
If you have a gas tube all the way to the bottom of the keg and you notice beer in the gas line when pouring, that would mean there is pressure in the keg above the pressure you’re pouring at.  This is not a good technique.  I would go back to a gas tube only long enough to be in the gas above the beer level and try carbonating again.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Offline goose

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Re: carbonation troubles in keg & bottle etc
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2018, 07:14:24 am »
I agree with all the other posts on this topic.  I never carbonate from the bottom of the keg anymore.,  I used to "crank and shake" when I first started kegging beers years ago and used to shoot the CO2 into the "beer out" dip tube.  Not anymore.  One thing that also happens if you carbonate through the "beer out" dip tube is that you start scrubbing hop flavor out of the beer, which was another reason for me stopping this practice.

One thing that you did not mention, is this an extract or an all grain beer?  The reason for this question is that I had an issue similar to yours long ago when I brewed an extract porter that just would not carbonate at all.  I had no leaks in  the system.  A more experienced brewer told me at the time that he thought the problem was that there probably was not enough protein in the beer to hold the CO2 in solution, obviously something beyond my control as a brewer.  I never did any more research on this as I moved to all grain shortly thereafter and never had this problem again.  It is possible that this might be the issue.

I would be interested if anyone else would weigh in on this thought as to whether I might be off base here.
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Offline Richard

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Re: carbonation troubles in keg & bottle etc
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2018, 09:37:44 am »
I carbonate water in a SodaStream machine. It has no protein at all and it carbonates nicely. I don't think protein content is relevant at all.
Original Gravity - that would be Newton's

Offline joelv

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Re: carbonation troubles in keg & bottle etc
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2018, 10:55:00 am »
It does sound like a leak is the most likely culprit. At 20 PSI and cold temps, gas should have moved into solution after a week.

You can use starsan or soapy water to detect leaks. The lid, pressure relief valve and gas side post and poppet are good places to start.

You could switch back to the gas in side. Put 20 psi and leave it in for several hours. Disconnect or shut off the gas and pull the pressure relief several hours later. You should have an audible hiss of remaking CO2 leave the valve (and if you have nothing / probably leaking).


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Offline Blue Duck Brew

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Re: carbonation troubles in keg & bottle etc
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2018, 05:58:17 pm »
Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

I am sure you are correct. Oxidation may affect it, but I still want to try. I think it will disappear fast enough should it carbonate.

I will double check for leaks. However, I could hear it bubble inside the keg when gas was added. For whatever that is worth. I also released the PRV, to try and see if any pressure had built. There was gas released and when it was closed and turned the gas back on, I could hear it bubble inside again.

I will pull the air line and cut if off. Guessing at about 2 inches? Or do you think a bit longer? That will also stop it from carbonating from the bottom in the future. Which seems to be a personal preference?

This was an extract brew. A friend bought it and thought I could whip it out in no time and have it ready for a party. [thanks for the 'help']. So that does make your observation about the protien level make me go hmmm. I would also like to hear if others have an opinion concerning this.

At this point I have nothing to loose and much to learn from this batch. Any further fixes would be appreciated. [something related to the above, could a protien of some discription be added and then try recarbonating?] I will be happy to try suggestions and let you know if any of them work if you would like.