Author Topic: NEIPA Failure Brew - Need Opinions  (Read 2369 times)

Offline Uvolnit

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Re: NEIPA Failure Brew - Need Opinions
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2018, 02:17:13 AM »
I know a lot of people (me included), described the effects of O2 on NEIPA.

I’m going to offer though, that the color in those photos seems pretty extreme to think it is just a matter of O2 and what happens when oxidation and NEIPA combine.

Your grain bill should not produce a beer that dark, even with the moderate O2 that occurs with bottles and time. Your grain bill seems to be in the 5-6 range and these photos almost look like 14-18 SRM. That seems much more than what happens with some oxidation.

Is there any way any of the grains in your posted recipe are different than what is posted.

This is a bit of a head scratcher in my opinion. If someone else said it would darken THAT much, I’d be more open to thinking I’m wrong, but that is pretty dark.


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Yes, I'm sure the grains are correct, unless the LHBS guy gave me the wrong ones.  But I stood there and watched as he chose and weighed out each grain.  He was on par with the recipe I was asking for.
I agree that it seems unreal but from what I've been researching it's very true, especially with the amount of hops used. 
The link posted earlier of an experiment shows the same dark result.  http://brulosophy.com/2018/03/12/the-impact-of-bottle-conditioning-on-new-england-ipa-exbeeriment-results/


Here's a pic of the beer in the fermenter.  It was hazy, bright, and light when racking to the bottling bucket and when bottling.  I bottled one in a clear bottle for the heck of it and it was light but was the first beer I cracked open so maybe it didn't get the extra week + a few days to oxidize like the ones I show poured.  Next time I'm going to purge the bottling bucket with some CO2/Argon from my welding tank and cover, until I get a kegging setup to use straight CO2.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 02:19:42 AM by Uvolnit »

Offline joelv

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Re: NEIPA Failure Brew - Need Opinions
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2018, 01:37:02 PM »
I know a lot of people (me included), described the effects of O2 on NEIPA.

I’m going to offer though, that the color in those photos seems pretty extreme to think it is just a matter of O2 and what happens when oxidation and NEIPA combine.

Your grain bill should not produce a beer that dark, even with the moderate O2 that occurs with bottles and time. Your grain bill seems to be in the 5-6 range and these photos almost look like 14-18 SRM. That seems much more than what happens with some oxidation.

Is there any way any of the grains in your posted recipe are different than what is posted.

This is a bit of a head scratcher in my opinion. If someone else said it would darken THAT much, I’d be more open to thinking I’m wrong, but that is pretty dark.


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Yes, I'm sure the grains are correct, unless the LHBS guy gave me the wrong ones.  But I stood there and watched as he chose and weighed out each grain.  He was on par with the recipe I was asking for.
I agree that it seems unreal but from what I've been researching it's very true, especially with the amount of hops used. 
The link posted earlier of an experiment shows the same dark result.  http://brulosophy.com/2018/03/12/the-impact-of-bottle-conditioning-on-new-england-ipa-exbeeriment-results/


Here's a pic of the beer in the fermenter.  It was hazy, bright, and light when racking to the bottling bucket and when bottling.  I bottled one in a clear bottle for the heck of it and it was light but was the first beer I cracked open so maybe it didn't get the extra week + a few days to oxidize like the ones I show poured.  Next time I'm going to purge the bottling bucket with some CO2/Argon from my welding tank and cover, until I get a kegging setup to use straight CO2.



I appreciate the pic... yep, I’m barking up a wrong tree and it looks like the color really changed that much. I was the one who sent the Brulosophy link (these guys are great), but I didn’t think it could be that extreme.

Just to add more avenues to read / research - oxidation can be introduced pre-fermentation as well. Google LODO brewing and you will see a lot of people practicing process changes to minimize oxygen pickup in the mash and boil as well as post fermentation. Like most anything, I’m not sure I dive completely into a big change, but I tend to borrow a little from each bit of “research”. There could be some additional ways to minimize oxidation which is most likely going to be beneficial.


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Offline JohnK

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Re: NEIPA Failure Brew - Need Opinions
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2018, 04:53:52 PM »
I just had the exact same thing happen. Had already chalked it up to oxygen exposure during bottling, but your pictures really confirm that for me. Can’t yet invest in a co2 system, but giving it another shot. Deleting the siphon and considering bottling straight out of the new fermentor with the valve on the side and some priming tablets.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: NEIPA Failure Brew - Need Opinions
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2018, 10:21:37 AM »
All NEIPAs are failures. Even the popular ones. ;)

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: NEIPA Failure Brew - Need Opinions
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2018, 04:06:03 PM »
All NEIPAs are failures. Even the popular ones. ;)
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Offline Uvolnit

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Re: NEIPA Failure Brew - Need Opinions
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2019, 03:51:16 AM »
I don't completely agree with you but I also don't disagree.  A strong, fruity IPA is my favorite type of beer.  The "best" NEIPA's are very unique and delicious, and expensive to buy and make.  On the other hand I appreciate and love the taste, crispness, and refreshment of a true European beer.  My wife and I went to Oktoberfest this year and I absolutely loved the German Festbier.  It's hard to compare the different styles and I can't be biased.

Offline Wilbur

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Re: NEIPA Failure Brew - Need Opinions
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2019, 01:43:12 PM »
Not much new to add, just want to throw an emphasis on water chemistry with a relatively high Chloride. I'd say even go 140 on Cl and 100 SO4. Using CaCl has the added benefit of boosting Calcium which is said to help with a more full mouthfeel. Cheers!

I've used that ratio and enjoyed it. I do believe water chemistry, in addition to minimizing oxygen exposure, is pretty key.

All NEIPAs are failures. Even the popular ones. ;)

And we've found the worst (beer) take of 2019! Congratulations everyone, we're done with the internet this year.

Offline kramerog

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Re: NEIPA Failure Brew - Need Opinions
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2019, 04:26:46 PM »
Judged NEIPAs this weekend at a BJCP competion.  Three of 6 had a weird grey hue to them.   So yeah, oxidation during bottling is a problem,

Many of them also had diacetyl, which I think was caused by enzymes in dryhopping hops creating just a little more fermentable sugar.

Offline denny

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Re: NEIPA Failure Brew - Need Opinions
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2019, 04:42:41 PM »
Judged NEIPAs this weekend at a BJCP competion.  Three of 6 had a weird grey hue to them.   So yeah, oxidation during bottling is a problem,

Many of them also had diacetyl, which I think was caused by enzymes in dryhopping hops creating just a little more fermentable sugar.

Wouldn't continued fermentation tend to clean up diacetyl?  That's what happens with krausening.
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Offline kramerog

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Re: NEIPA Failure Brew - Need Opinions
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2019, 09:02:01 PM »
Judged NEIPAs this weekend at a BJCP competion.  Three of 6 had a weird grey hue to them.   So yeah, oxidation during bottling is a problem,

Many of them also had diacetyl, which I think was caused by enzymes in dryhopping hops creating just a little more fermentable sugar.

Wouldn't continued fermentation tend to clean up diacetyl?  That's what happens with krausening.
Yes

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Offline denny

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Re: NEIPA Failure Brew - Need Opinions
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2019, 10:44:01 PM »
Judged NEIPAs this weekend at a BJCP competion.  Three of 6 had a weird grey hue to them.   So yeah, oxidation during bottling is a problem,

Many of them also had diacetyl, which I think was caused by enzymes in dryhopping hops creating just a little more fermentable sugar.

Wouldn't continued fermentation tend to clean up diacetyl?  That's what happens with krausening.
Yes

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Then I'm confused by your implication that that's what caused the diacetyl.  Did I misunderstand?
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Offline kramerog

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Re: NEIPA Failure Brew - Need Opinions
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2019, 11:38:18 PM »
I'm guessing that the beers were dryhopped in a keg, bottled off the keg since I didn't see sediment in the bottles, generally kept cold, but for a few days stored warm allowing some fermentation to occur allowing the diacetyl to be created but not enough to clean up the diacetyl.

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