Author Topic: Score another for cloudy wort  (Read 4258 times)

The Beerery

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Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2018, 10:25:27 am »
Realize what? Homebrewers been pumping out cloudy wort since day 1. Which is a result of repurposed equipment that it’s original intent was not for brewing.  Which in this case is good, bad or indifferent. 


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« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 10:31:14 am by The Beerery »

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2018, 11:11:22 am »
I dont know about all home brewers, but from my day 1 I was lead to believe,  if not outright instructed, to try to get my transferred wort as clear as possible, leaving behind as much trub as possible.

In my brewery, I try to be mindful of quality gains vs effort to achieve them. So in this case, if I save 20 minutes (waiting for settling) and reduce equipment that needs cleaning (auto-siphon) and the end results are no change, or improved... it's an easy decision. Even if its contrary to proven science or conventional wisdom.

This is one of the great things about home brewing. You can do what works for you. Be a Django Reinhardt!
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 11:20:03 am by klickitat jim »

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Re: Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2018, 11:23:50 am »
I dont know about all home brewers, but from my day 1 I was lead to believe,  if not outright instructed, to try to get my transferred wort as clear as possible, leaving behind as much trub as possible.

In my brewery, I try to be mindful of quality gains vs effort to achieve them. So in this case, if I save 20 minutes (waiting for settling) and reduce equipment that needs cleaning (auto-siphon) and the end results are no change, or improved... it's an easy decision. Even if its contrary to proven science or conventional wisdom.

Maybe this is where my laziness worked in my favor.  Like you, I read and heard all the stuff about clear wort and that was my goal and method for  quite a while.  Then I stooped wprrying about it, based both on ly lack of caring and also some stuff I read.  I found that the wort that was cloudy made beer at least as good as clear wort.  I guess I'm surprised that more people haven't gone through the discovery that you and I did.
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2018, 11:48:44 am »
I dont know about all home brewers, but from my day 1 I was lead to believe,  if not outright instructed, to try to get my transferred wort as clear as possible, leaving behind as much trub as possible.

In my brewery, I try to be mindful of quality gains vs effort to achieve them. So in this case, if I save 20 minutes (waiting for settling) and reduce equipment that needs cleaning (auto-siphon) and the end results are no change, or improved... it's an easy decision. Even if its contrary to proven science or conventional wisdom.

Maybe this is where my laziness worked in my favor.  Like you, I read and heard all the stuff about clear wort and that was my goal and method for  quite a while.  Then I stooped wprrying about it, based both on ly lack of caring and also some stuff I read.  I found that the wort that was cloudy made beer at least as good as clear wort.  I guess I'm surprised that more people haven't gone through the discovery that you and I did.
I never discovered this myself because for the first 10-ish years I brewed I tipped the kettle and poured everything into the fermenter. I was way to cheap to leave liquid behind in the kettle.  I definitely read about people doing otherwise, but, these debates always have folks on both sides, so, I never felt alone.

Now, for a few months I have had a Grainfather. GF wort has a lot less trub, but, a healthy amount still transfers to the fermenter. My friends and I like my beer before and after getting the GF.

The Beerery

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Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2018, 12:07:33 pm »
I think you are mistaking the clarity of clear wort.  Clear wort is actually measured in the professional brewery (Kuzne and ‘Narziß provide those numbers).  If you are not recirculating for 120+ minutes you are not even close to clear wort. Grain and husk free wort sure, clear professionally clear brewery wort.  No, and that makes a huge difference. I would go so far to say the bulk of normal homebrewers wort ( especially biab) would be above the unacceptable mark that brewers use as a “cloudy” wort.

For instance I for one strive for very clear wort.  The bottom of my full kettle is easily seen, and during mashing my wort is brilliant. But I mash for 3hrs + and take other measures. 



I personally can taste when cloudy wort gets boiled, the resulting wort tastes muddy. The fats and lipids make a difference for me.  But then again I can also pick up too strong of a boil as well.  So for me and my brewery this is the SOP.


The context here is that professional brewers can have the best of both worlds (potentially).  The cloudy fatty wort can help them (potentially) in the fermenter, especially if single infusion, and coagulable nitrogen is down from too strong of a boil. This is also the reason it helps homebrewers, as they usually have more nutrient deficient wort. Then they can filter out the gunk of packaging so it’s not sticking around staling the beer.  Homebrewers don’t have that option (usually) but have the benefit of not having to deliver, shake, sit on a shelf warm, and be consumed fast. 

Either way it only matters to the person doing the brewing and consuming. 


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« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 12:10:08 pm by The Beerery »

Big Monk

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Re: Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2018, 09:22:11 am »
Then they can filter out the gunk of packaging so it’s not sticking around staling the beer.  Homebrewers don’t have that option (usually) but have the benefit of not having to deliver, shake, sit on a shelf warm, and be consumed fast. 

Either way it only matters to the person doing the brewing and consuming. 


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Important distinction. It's all about adapting things to your process and how you apply these concepts.

Offline fredthecat

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Re: Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2021, 11:45:59 am »
https://www.masterbrewerspodcast.com/097


Just listened to this after having downloaded it a while ago and ignored it. just a 15 minute listen, but im really hyped to try it out next brew.

I think a consideration I want to take into account is if I'm making a ~1.045 beer with the intention of using the yeast cake on a much higher OG second brew, this will help the yeast's health stay optimal for that second big brew.


Offline chinaski

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Re: Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2021, 05:41:25 pm »

Offline Richard

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Re: Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2021, 05:50:35 pm »
https://www.masterbrewerspodcast.com/097
Just listened to this after having downloaded it a while ago and ignored it....

You ignored it for about 3 years, it appears. That is some world-class procrastination!
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Offline fredthecat

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Re: Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2021, 07:35:38 pm »
https://www.masterbrewerspodcast.com/097
Just listened to this after having downloaded it a while ago and ignored it....

You ignored it for about 3 years, it appears. That is some world-class procrastination!

nope, i downloaded it about a month ago when i DLed a whole bunch of this show.

Offline BrewBama

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Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2021, 09:43:19 pm »
This is where I’ve landed:

I don't know if it's a contradiction so much as a balancing between competing goals.

… 

It doesn't have to be a binary proposition.



I dont dump the whole thing any more, ... Once I've whirlpool-chilled to pitching temp, I transfer ... My pickup tube leaves about a 1/2" in the kettle, which is mostly hops.




Either way it only matters to the person doing the brewing and consuming. 



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« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 09:50:40 pm by BrewBama »

Offline majorvices

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Re: Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2021, 08:01:09 am »
If you want to add an extra layer of clarity from your lauter line your MLT with a fine micron mesh grain bag. It makes a huge difference and also really helps avoid stuck lauters. Since I started using one I am amazed, not only at the clarity of my wort, but at the faster extraction rate.

Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2021, 05:26:33 am »
We strive for clarity all through the brewing process. The mash is recirculated for at least 120 minutes, as we do triple infusion step mashes. There are double stainless steel screens on top of the false bottom in the mash tun, which really help catch the particles that otherwise would pass on to the boil kettle.

We also have double stainless steel screens on the bottom of the boil kettle. You would be shocked how much "mud" is filtered out of the wort.
In addition, we use whole hops. These act as a natural filter also, providing clear wort when transferring to the fermenter.
The last step we employ is running the chilled wort through a fine mesh hop bag as it is running into the fermenter. Again, you would be surprised how much debris / trub is filtered out at this final step.

I am fully aware this is a debatable subject, clear vs cloudy wort. Our practice works well for us. Most of the beers we are brewing are Euro-Lagers. German Pils, Czech Premium Pale Pils, Vienna Lagers, etc.

Our beers benefit from clear wort all through the brewing process.

Here is one more item, worth mentioning: When chilling the boiled wort, time and temperature are not a consideration. The run off into the fermenter does not take place until we have achieved a full and very visible cold break. This takes from one hour to 2 hours, depending on the time of year and our water temp.

The single largest benefit from this is the harvested yeast is hyper-clean.

We use straight filtered tap water / RO tap water. No adjustments, none. No O2 introduction for the yeast, zero yeast nutrients.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 05:30:08 am by TXFlyGuy »
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Re: Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2021, 08:12:23 am »

Our beers benefit from clear wort all through the brewing process.

I'm curious how you verified this.  Have you tried it another way?
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Offline Bel Air Brewing

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Re: Score another for cloudy wort
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2021, 08:27:31 am »

Our beers benefit from clear wort all through the brewing process.

I'm curious how you verified this.  Have you tried it another way?

Clear wort has been a decades long goal. Yes, it has been tried with cloudy wort, but that was completely unintentional. Never did an A-B comparison.
As we have done well in competitions using the current method, with crystal clear wort, we do not plan to make any changes.
Like they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Certainly brewers here can and do have good results with cloudy / muddy looking wort. Not arguing that at all.

For those who like to drink crystal clear beer, the other benefit to our brewing technique is the beer is pretty clear going into the serving keg.

edit: We always harvest our yeast. As stated, by filtering out all of the trub and other debris from the wort, the yeast that we harvest is hyper-clean. To us, this is the single greatest benefit.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 08:51:39 am by TXFlyGuy »
When the goal is to brew the best beer possible, there is no finish line.