Author Topic: Oxidization  (Read 4290 times)

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10383
  • Milford, MI
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2018, 01:30:43 pm »
An ESB might be the wrong style for this. Malts kilned to 3+ lovibond have little of the compound left according to what Ricardo Fritche presented on the AHA web session.

A Helles or Pils would be the beer to test it on.
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Online tommymorris

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 3362
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2018, 01:36:03 pm »
An ESB might be the wrong style for this. Malts kilned to 3+ lovibond have little of the compound left according to what Ricardo Fritche presented on the AHA web session.

A Helles or Pils would be the beer to test it on.
Which compound do you mean?

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4387
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2018, 01:44:36 pm »
An ESB might be the wrong style for this. Malts kilned to 3+ lovibond have little of the compound left according to what Ricardo Fritche presented on the AHA web session.

A Helles or Pils would be the beer to test it on.
Which compound do you mean?

Trans 2 nonenal is the staling compound typically referenced.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 01:59:39 pm by ynotbrusum »
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

The Beerery

  • Guest
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2018, 01:53:16 pm »
LOX.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25385
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2018, 01:57:38 pm »
LOX.

Love it on bagels with cream cheese!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4387
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2018, 02:05:37 pm »
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Online tommymorris

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 3362
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2018, 02:06:29 pm »
Thanks. Maybe I should brew more with pale ale malt. :)

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 5144
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2018, 02:17:36 pm »
Thanks. Maybe I should brew more with pale ale malt. :)

I recall Brulosophy did a test between Pils and Pale malt in the same recipe and no one could tell the difference. Who knows that may not be a bad way to go.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25385
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2018, 02:28:07 pm »
Thanks. Maybe I should brew more with pale ale malt. :)

I recall Brulosophy did a test between Pils and Pale malt in the same recipe and no one could tell the difference. Who knows that may not be a bad way to go.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It wpould depend on a beer.  Might not be detectable in a pale ale or IPA, but likely could in a pils, helles, or something light.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Slowbrew

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2808
  • The Slowly Losing IT Brewery in Urbandale, IA
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2018, 03:02:28 pm »
LOX.

Main component of rocket fuel.  Liquid Oxygen.  ::)

Paul

 ;D
Where the heck are we going?  And what's with this hand basket?

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10383
  • Milford, MI
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2018, 03:12:23 pm »
LOX.

Main component of rocket fuel.  Liquid Oxygen.  ::)

Paul

 ;D
It is the oxidizer for the other fuel component.
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10383
  • Milford, MI
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2018, 03:14:51 pm »
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 5144
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2018, 03:46:43 pm »
Thanks. Maybe I should brew more with pale ale malt. :)

I recall Brulosophy did a test between Pils and Pale malt in the same recipe and no one could tell the difference. Who knows that may not be a bad way to go.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It wpould depend on a beer.  Might not be detectable in a pale ale or IPA, but likely could in a pils, helles, or something light.

Here it is. Looks like it was a Cal Common. http://brulosophy.com/2017/08/28/grain-comparison-pale-malt-2-row-vs-pilsner-malt-exbeeriment-results/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25385
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2018, 04:43:34 pm »
Thanks. Maybe I should brew more with pale ale malt. :)

I recall Brulosophy did a test between Pils and Pale malt in the same recipe and no one could tell the difference. Who knows that may not be a bad way to go.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It wpould depend on a beer.  Might not be detectable in a pale ale or IPA, but likely could in a pils, helles, or something light.

Here it is. Looks like it was a Cal Common. http://brulosophy.com/2017/08/28/grain-comparison-pale-malt-2-row-vs-pilsner-malt-exbeeriment-results/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yep, I could see that for that style it wouldn't make a lot of difference. Might be different for something that used only pils malt, but I wouldn't swear to it til I tried it.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Hersey

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 29
Re: Oxidization
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2018, 09:35:48 am »
Interesting,  I thought a more rigorous boil was desired.  I'll have to turn my burner down and give it a try.

The idea of a long, vigorous boil was to drive off DMS.  In fact, it takes at least 30 minutes on heat to convert the DMS precursor,  SMM, into DMS,  after which just a few minutes of an open boil with lots of rolling and bubbling will drive it off.  BUT.  It is very rare today to find a malt that contains the precursor, although it was common in the palest Pilsner malts decades ago, whence the old advice.  For all other purposes you can keep the lid mostly on, allowing you to reduce the heat, and just maintain a simmer providing the good rolling circulation which you need to coagulate protein and well utilize your hops. Then lid off and blast it for a bit, there are still other volatiles fo blow off. One trick I like for this is to heat the kettle asymmetrically. This will create a lot of movement and turbulence. (Here's an indicator:  if your boil off is under 10%, even as low as 6%, you're probably doing well on the thermal stress.  Above that, and especially when you hit 12%, wort will taste stale and get staler faster.) 

(I had a long brewing hiatus too, in the late 90s to early 00s, and it seemed not much had changed.  In the last 10 years, it seems everything we knew has been upended!)

Good to know!  I've got a cover for my bk but generally haven't used it except to keep debris from falling in if it was windy etc.  In years past I did slower gentle boils and things are starting to come back to me but still much has changed just in the time I wasn't brewing.