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Author Topic: Hops can convert starches  (Read 6584 times)

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Hops can convert starches
« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2018, 04:45:12 am »
Was your Old Fashioned made with simple syrup or made with gomme syrup?

Collins Cocktail Cherry Juice and Sprite... and a splash of water because while I like my old fashioneds sweet, I don't like them cloyingly sweet nor overly whiskeyed.  I also stir the bejesus out of it so it's totally uniform.
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Offline joe_meadmaker

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Re: Hops can convert starches
« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2018, 11:07:58 am »
There is also at least one very acclaimed craft brewery around here, which arguably brought the style to the area, which adds flour to the whirlpool stand to create even more haze. The chunks of flour fall into the glass upon pouring. Yuck.

Yuck is right.  To each his own, but I can't understand why someone would pay for that.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Hops can convert starches
« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2018, 01:09:10 pm »
I had a NEIPA Saturday at my LHBS, since it was celebrating the first day of its liquor license (it will serve beer, wine and cider made on premises or otherwise commercially made).  The NEIPA was brewed by a local brewer who opened shop within the last year (an award-winning homebrewer from my club).  I ordered a pint and while it began as a really fruity and hazy drinkable (dare I say enjoyable) beer, the hops definitely weighed on my palate as I progressed through the glass.  By the end, I definitely experienced a bitterness that could have been some kind of interplay between the hops and the remaining post-fermentation starches or sugars - kind of biting straight down the middle of the tongue, like an over-bittered (too heavy 60 minute add) rye IPA can become.  Whether there was biotransformation at work or not, I cannot say;  only that organoleptically speaking, what was pleasant for the first 4-6 ounces, became nearly unpalatable by the final few ounces.

Now I remember why I don't make or drink IPA's more than on rare occasions.  My palate is perhaps too delicate to handle the hop blasts, whether early or late in the process.
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Offline denny

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Re: Hops can convert starches
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2018, 01:18:24 pm »
I had a NEIPA Saturday at my LHBS, since it was celebrating the first day of its liquor license (it will serve beer, wine and cider made on premises or otherwise commercially made).  The NEIPA was brewed by a local brewer who opened shop within the last year (an award-winning homebrewer from my club).  I ordered a pint and while it began as a really fruity and hazy drinkable (dare I say enjoyable) beer, the hops definitely weighed on my palate as I progressed through the glass.  By the end, I definitely experienced a bitterness that could have been some kind of interplay between the hops and the remaining post-fermentation starches or sugars - kind of biting straight down the middle of the tongue, like an over-bittered (too heavy 60 minute add) rye IPA can become.  Whether there was biotransformation at work or not, I cannot say;  only that organoleptically speaking, what was pleasant for the first 4-6 ounces, became nearly unpalatable by the final few ounces.

Now I remember why I don't make or drink IPA's more than on rare occasions.  My palate is perhaps too delicate to handle the hop blasts, whether early or late in the process.

Do you think it was hop bitterness or tannins from the hops?  That's what I dislike about all the hazy IPAs I've tried so far.
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Re: Hops can convert starches
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2018, 05:13:37 pm »


Do you think it was hop bitterness or tannins from the hops?  That's what I dislike about all the hazy IPAs I've tried so far.

Amen.



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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Hops can convert starches
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2018, 11:03:13 am »
Could have been the tannins, but I really like unsweetened iced tea and drink a lot of it - so it wasn't that sort of tannin, nor was it vegetal, but definitely a bite right down the middle of my tongue (like when I tasted a hop shot on a dare a few years back).  I won't be going for any other NEIPA for a while.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline denny

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Re: Hops can convert starches
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2018, 12:09:29 pm »
Could have been the tannins, but I really like unsweetened iced tea and drink a lot of it - so it wasn't that sort of tannin, nor was it vegetal, but definitely a bite right down the middle of my tongue (like when I tasted a hop shot on a dare a few years back).  I won't be going for any other NEIPA for a while.

Yeah, that sounds like hop tannins to me.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline tgfish

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Re: Hops can convert starches
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2018, 11:09:51 am »
New drunken revelation!:  Fresh NEIPAs are hazy PRIMARILY BECAUSE....

Dry hops contain enzymes which convert unconverted complex dextrins into fermentable sugars and it keeps the yeast eating and in suspension otherwise they'd be settling out but since they're not done eating they don't.

Discuss.  Or don't.  I don't care.

Seems evidence points to protein + polyphenols and other non-polar hop compounds rather than yeast as the source of haze.

http://masterbrewerspodcast.com/104-the-hidden-secrets-of-new-england-ipa

Offline denny

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Re: Hops can convert starches
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2018, 11:54:05 am »
New drunken revelation!:  Fresh NEIPAs are hazy PRIMARILY BECAUSE....

Dry hops contain enzymes which convert unconverted complex dextrins into fermentable sugars and it keeps the yeast eating and in suspension otherwise they'd be settling out but since they're not done eating they don't.

Discuss.  Or don't.  I don't care.

Seems evidence points to protein + polyphenols and other non-polar hop compounds rather than yeast as the source of haze.

http://masterbrewerspodcast.com/104-the-hidden-secrets-of-new-england-ipa

Yeah, I think that's pretty well known.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline tgfish

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Re: Hops can convert starches
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2018, 12:09:08 pm »
New drunken revelation!:  Fresh NEIPAs are hazy PRIMARILY BECAUSE....

Dry hops contain enzymes which convert unconverted complex dextrins into fermentable sugars and it keeps the yeast eating and in suspension otherwise they'd be settling out but since they're not done eating they don't.

Discuss.  Or don't.  I don't care.

Seems evidence points to protein + polyphenols and other non-polar hop compounds rather than yeast as the source of haze.

http://masterbrewerspodcast.com/104-the-hidden-secrets-of-new-england-ipa

Yeah, I think that's pretty well known.

Right, I just wanted to provide a good source for that since no one else had in this thread yet.

Offline denny

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Re: Hops can convert starches
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2018, 12:19:01 pm »
New drunken revelation!:  Fresh NEIPAs are hazy PRIMARILY BECAUSE....

Dry hops contain enzymes which convert unconverted complex dextrins into fermentable sugars and it keeps the yeast eating and in suspension otherwise they'd be settling out but since they're not done eating they don't.

Discuss.  Or don't.  I don't care.

Seems evidence points to protein + polyphenols and other non-polar hop compounds rather than yeast as the source of haze.

http://masterbrewerspodcast.com/104-the-hidden-secrets-of-new-england-ipa

Yeah, I think that's pretty well known.

Right, I just wanted to provide a good source for that since no one else had in this thread yet.

And thank you for that!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline tgfish

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Re: Hops can convert starches
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2018, 12:56:42 pm »
The portion where he talks about the centrifuged & dehydrated material is a really interesting and cool experiment.