Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: Pump or Gravity Stand?  (Read 4559 times)

Offline RustyPlaneWoodworking

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 26
Pump or Gravity Stand?
« on: October 15, 2018, 12:00:39 pm »
In your experiences, do you think the purchase price of a pump (such as a chugger pump) is worth it? Or, is a gravity-fed system made out of wood/metal a better option?

I'm sure there are some varying opinions on this and I'm curious about those opinions.

In my last brew, I was lifting my HLT up and pouring 180-190 degree water into my mash tun for batch sparging and I started to think about how that's really unsafe and messy. Seems like maybe a tiered brew stand would be more effective here, but then I also started to consider a pump system.

I'm leaning more towards a pump simply because of space and it just seems like it would be a lot more simple of a set up than a tiered system, which would mean I still would have to hoist an HLT to the top of the platform to get the most optimal gravity feed...


Offline mchrispen

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 713
    • Accidentalis Brewing Blog
Re: Pump or Gravity Stand?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2018, 12:07:21 pm »
Take this with a grain of salt as I own several pumps and brew on both a Brew-Magic and a BrewEasy... which require pumps.


Pumps can be a PITA. They frequently don't prime properly, require some maintenance, and can just not work for some random reason.


That said, your reasoning is why many people get a pump. I have a good friend that uses his kettle to heat all of his strike water up, and then pumps in into the manifold of his cooler tun, underletting. Then uses the same kettle to heat up sparge water, which gets pumped into a second cooler for the lauter. Then he gravity drains the sweet wort into the kettle via gravity, and simply pumps over the HLT into the Mash for a fast batch sparge. Kind of nice as the pump never sees wort - only water.

If you get one, next thing is you will want to recirculate during the mash, etc. Unnecessary complexity unless you like that kind of thing. I do.
Matt Chrispen
Sometime Austin Zealot
Blogging from the garage @ accidentalis.com
>> Bru'n Water Spreadsheet Walkthroughs<<
>> Bru'n Water Subscriber Version 5.3 Spreadsheet Walkthrough <<

Offline BrewArk

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 575
  • Rick - Newark, California
    • BrewArk
Re: Pump or Gravity Stand?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2018, 12:16:12 pm »
I like gravity.  It's always running, always silent.
Beer...Now there's a temporary solution!

Na ZdravĂ­

Offline RustyPlaneWoodworking

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 26
Re: Pump or Gravity Stand?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2018, 12:18:29 pm »
I like gravity.  It's always running, always silent.

Did you build a big stand or anything?

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 10680
  • Milford, MI
Re: Pump or Gravity Stand?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2018, 12:19:19 pm »
I like gravity.  It's always running, always silent.

The price is nice, too.

I haven't figured out how to run it uphill.

Kidding aside, I use pumps to avoid lifting heavy things as much as possible
Jeff Rankert
AHA Lifetime Member
BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline RustyPlaneWoodworking

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 26
Re: Pump or Gravity Stand?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2018, 12:22:06 pm »
Take this with a grain of salt as I own several pumps and brew on both a Brew-Magic and a BrewEasy... which require pumps.


Pumps can be a PITA. They frequently don't prime properly, require some maintenance, and can just not work for some random reason.


That said, your reasoning is why many people get a pump. I have a good friend that uses his kettle to heat all of his strike water up, and then pumps in into the manifold of his cooler tun, underletting. Then uses the same kettle to heat up sparge water, which gets pumped into a second cooler for the lauter. Then he gravity drains the sweet wort into the kettle via gravity, and simply pumps over the HLT into the Mash for a fast batch sparge. Kind of nice as the pump never sees wort - only water.

If you get one, next thing is you will want to recirculate during the mash, etc. Unnecessary complexity unless you like that kind of thing. I do.

Is there an added benefit to re-circulation during mashing?

And what do you mean by "priming" the pump?

---

It is mostly because I dont have a ton of space to build a multi-tiered stand, I dont necessarily want to buy another propane burner, and the idea of lifting a 10-gal kettle with 6-8gal of hot a-f water and dump into the mash tun...just not safe.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 12:25:03 pm by RustyPlaneWoodworking »

Offline RustyPlaneWoodworking

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 26
Re: Pump or Gravity Stand?
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2018, 12:27:21 pm »
I like gravity.  It's always running, always silent.

The price is nice, too.

I haven't figured out how to run it uphill.

Kidding aside, I use pumps to avoid lifting heavy things as much as possible

I figured I could build a stand for about $30-40 worth of wood and screws. But I'd still have to hoist a HLT up to the top tier.

Offline mchrispen

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 713
    • Accidentalis Brewing Blog
Re: Pump or Gravity Stand?
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2018, 12:34:37 pm »
Most of the pumps we use in brewing require the head of the pump to be fully flooded... or primed.


As for recirculation, I am betting that criteria of "does it make better beer" results in "probably not." It just happens that the systems I use are hybrid/psuedo RIMS (Recirculating Infusion Mash System). I might get slightly better efficiency, but probably not.


My point, I guess, is like posed earlier, gravity just works all the time. But a pump can be deployed to make things safer, just more complicated.
Matt Chrispen
Sometime Austin Zealot
Blogging from the garage @ accidentalis.com
>> Bru'n Water Spreadsheet Walkthroughs<<
>> Bru'n Water Subscriber Version 5.3 Spreadsheet Walkthrough <<

Offline RC

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 669
Re: Pump or Gravity Stand?
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2018, 12:57:31 pm »
I now keep my kettle and HLT at the same level. My mash tun is just high enough (on a table) to allow a gravity runoff. I simply use a couple of 1-gallon pitchers to transfer hot water from the HTL to the mash tun for both strike and sparge water. It's a little more manual, obviously, but no heavy lifting is required and I can still use gravity for runoff and knockout. I agree, pumps are a PITA and after using them for a long time, I'm determined to get away from them, even for my biggest batches (~18 gal).

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27095
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Pump or Gravity Stand?
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2018, 01:36:51 pm »
I've been using a pump for years and find it very useful.  But I do not do recirculation.  My trials haven't found any value to me from it.  But I'm building a no lift system and I find pumps so useful that I just sprung for a Blichmann Riptide.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline RustyPlaneWoodworking

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 26
Re: Pump or Gravity Stand?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2018, 01:57:50 pm »
I've been using a pump for years and find it very useful.  But I do not do recirculation.  My trials haven't found any value to me from it.  But I'm building a no lift system and I find pumps so useful that I just sprung for a Blichmann Riptide.

Thanks Denny. And thanks for the input.

I think I will spring for that Northern Brewer pump. I dont plan on using it for wort or anything - just mashing in/out and sparging.

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4882
Re: Pump or Gravity Stand?
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2018, 03:25:56 pm »
I use Two Topsflo DC pumps and recirc to di step mashes.  I like a couple subtle improvements that I experience with this process, but certainly not lifting heavy containers is the single biggest benefit with a pump.  I fill my kettle to preboil my strike water using a small 2 gallon pail, but pump everything after that point.

YMMV, of course, so try it out and I bet you will find uses for the pump in your process.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 01:17:50 pm by ynotbrusum »
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4214
Re: Pump or Gravity Stand?
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2018, 04:11:59 pm »
I have everything on one level and, similarly to RC, use a pitcher for transfers.  LT drains by gravity to a pitcher or pail as a "grant" and I only lift a bit at a time to the kettle.  I've always done it like this, but appreciate it more as I need to lift less.  Ain't fancy, but it also avoids the PITA factors mentioned.   Unfortunately, there is no pump available to alleviate the need to lift sacks of grain, kegs in and out of the keezer... Maybe Denny will have some workarounds for these kinds of operations, too.   :)
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27095
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Pump or Gravity Stand?
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2018, 04:47:05 pm »
I have everything on one level and, similarly to RC, use a pitcher for transfers.  LT drains by gravity to a pitcher or pail as a "grant" and I only lift a bit at a time to the kettle.  I've always done it like this, but appreciate it more as I need to lift less.  Ain't fancy, but it also avoids the PITA factors mentioned.   Unfortunately, there is no pump available to alleviate the need to lift sacks of grain, kegs in and out of the keezer... Maybe Denny will have some workarounds for these kinds of operations, too.   :)

I recommend anti gravity devices.  Like young friends! 

But somewhat seriously, I use CO2 xfers to get beer into keezers, assuming the spacing works for you.  I also split kegs and grain into 2 containers so they're easier to lift.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell