Author Topic: Kraeusen Layer on Starter  (Read 1255 times)

Offline charlie

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Re: Kraeusen Layer on Starter
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2018, 03:15:05 AM »
Charlie, when you make your 500 ml "stock starters" do you see kräusen in them, or only in the 2 liter "pitching starters"?

Always! They behave exactly like the 1L starters except on a smaller scale.

When I had a yeast bank (long story) and prepared starters from a slant I boosted it in 5 stages:

1. 5 ml inoculated from the slant.
2. 25 ml
3. 125 ml
4. 500 ml
5. 2000 ml

I saw krausen in every stage from the smallest on up. I have a pic of one set of 5 ml stages where I captured the yeast from Bells 2-Hearted and Parish Ghost In The Machine. How the heck do I attach an image?

Charlie

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Offline Robert

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Re: Kraeusen Layer on Starter
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2018, 03:21:04 AM »
If you have an image on Google drive or the like you can post us a link.  You see I've finally broken down and installed Tapatalk,  which is a dead easy way to share images it turns out.  (I'm just a Luddite.)  Otherwise you need to have your image on a 3rd party hosting site.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

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Offline charlie

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Re: Kraeusen Layer on Starter
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2018, 03:40:36 AM »
Yes officer, I know that I smell like beer. I'm not drinking it, I'm wearing it!

Offline Robert

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Re: Kraeusen Layer on Starter
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2018, 03:46:30 AM »
Got the pic!  But here's the question now.  Is that really significant kräusen?   I mean, given a different geometry,  like the surface to volume ratio of a flask, that amount of foam would be nearly nonexistent,  right?  But that would still be consistent with increasing kräusen in each stage.
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Offline KellerBrauer

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Re: Kraeusen Layer on Starter
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2018, 01:40:48 PM »
Got the pic!  But here's the question now.  Is that really significant kräusen?   I mean, given a different geometry,  like the surface to volume ratio of a flask, that amount of foam would be nearly nonexistent,  right?  But that would still be consistent with increasing kräusen in each stage.

Further, there is no stir plate to knock down the kraeusen.  I would be willing to bet, after reading some replies posted here, that a 1200 mL starter without a stir plate will also generate a very nice kraeusen within a 24 hour period.

Very interesting conversation!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 01:43:34 PM by KellerBrauer »
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Offline mainebrewer

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Re: Kraeusen Layer on Starter
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2018, 05:16:46 PM »
I save and re-pitch yeast so I probably only make 4 starters in a year.
I use a stir plate and the only yeast variety that, on a first step, gives me a large krausen is WLP001 and I usually have to use Fermcap. I get little or no krausen on WLP002 or WLP830. The only exception is when I step up WLP830, I will get a large krausen and, again, I need to use Fermcap to keep it from crawling out of the flask.
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Offline charlie

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Re: Kraeusen Layer on Starter
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2018, 06:27:53 PM »
Further, there is no stir plate to knock down the kraeusen.  I would be willing to bet, after reading some replies posted here, that a 1200 mL starter without a stir plate will also generate a very nice kraeusen within a 24 hour period.

In my experience the stir plate increases fermentation rate, and therefore krausen. As I envision it the stir plate keeps the yeast in suspension and makes it more likely for them to encounter fermentable material. I use the stir plate right after I pitch, but if I'm not actively watching the starter I turn the stir plate off because if I don't I'll come back to a puddle of karausen on the work bench. This is particularly true of WLP-001. WLP-007 not so much.

Charlie
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Offline Richard

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Re: Kraeusen Layer on Starter
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2019, 03:09:25 PM »
Is it normal to NOT have a kraeusen layer in the starter?  And is there an explanation?
Resurrecting an old thread. I have been reading the book "Yeast" and perhaps now have an explanation. I don't re-use yeast, so all my single-stage starters are from lab-grown yeast and all my two-stage starters are from  yeast grown on DME. I rarely see any foam on my single-stage starters but usually see quite a bit on my second stages. My hypothesis is that the lab-grown yeast (at least from White Labs and Wyeast) are missing some key ingredient needed to make persistent krausen. I use yeast nutrient so the missing ingredient isn't a simple one. By the second stage they have had an opportunity to get lots of good stuff from the DME of the first stage and can make healthy karusen. Of course the yeast strain will have a big effect, too.

Does anyone have experience that contradicts this hypothesis?
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Offline denny

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Re: Kraeusen Layer on Starter
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2019, 03:35:40 PM »
Is it normal to NOT have a kraeusen layer in the starter?  And is there an explanation?
Resurrecting an old thread. I have been reading the book "Yeast" and perhaps now have an explanation. I don't re-use yeast, so all my single-stage starters are from lab-grown yeast and all my two-stage starters are from  yeast grown on DME. I rarely see any foam on my single-stage starters but usually see quite a bit on my second stages. My hypothesis is that the lab-grown yeast (at least from White Labs and Wyeast) are missing some key ingredient needed to make persistent krausen. I use yeast nutrient so the missing ingredient isn't a simple one. By the second stage they have had an opportunity to get lots of good stuff from the DME of the first stage and can make healthy karusen. Of course the yeast strain will have a big effect, too.

Does anyone have experience that contradicts this hypothesis?

Yeah, I do.  My single stage SNS starters always have krausen.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Kraeusen Layer on Starter
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2019, 04:04:21 PM »
Is it normal to NOT have a kraeusen layer in the starter?  And is there an explanation?
Resurrecting an old thread. I have been reading the book "Yeast" and perhaps now have an explanation. I don't re-use yeast, so all my single-stage starters are from lab-grown yeast and all my two-stage starters are from  yeast grown on DME. I rarely see any foam on my single-stage starters but usually see quite a bit on my second stages. My hypothesis is that the lab-grown yeast (at least from White Labs and Wyeast) are missing some key ingredient needed to make persistent krausen. I use yeast nutrient so the missing ingredient isn't a simple one. By the second stage they have had an opportunity to get lots of good stuff from the DME of the first stage and can make healthy karusen. Of course the yeast strain will have a big effect, too.

Does anyone have experience that contradicts this hypothesis?

Yeah, I do.  My single stage SNS starters always have krausen.
All my starters have foam.  But they can go fast, so blink and you miss it.  Lots of yeast and little wort compared to a batch fermentation.
Rob Stein
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Offline Visor

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Re: Kraeusen Layer on Starter
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2019, 02:44:01 PM »
  Kraeusen/foam, what's the difference? Mine always have foam or kraeusen on the surface, after a few hours there's going to be usually brownish crud on the surface of the foam.
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