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Author Topic: Belgian dark strong  (Read 9131 times)

Big Monk

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2018, 10:53:15 am »
3787 responds the best, IMO, to no temperature control. I usually pitch at 64 and let it go. It hangs around 64-66 for about 24-36 hours and peaks around 73 around 4 days in.

In my situation, I can't do no temp control.  But I use that pretty much that same fermentation temp schedule, just controlled in my ferm chamber.

No basement? Too hot? Too cold?

Offline Robert

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2018, 11:34:14 am »
Alkalinity is something that for most cases you are trying to neutralize, or occasionally add, i.e. in dark beers (although I have never had a situation that drove me to add alkalinity to my water);


These types of beers don't really qualify as "dark" beers in the classic sense as they have no roast (or shouldn't IMO) but with that said, I mash all my beers at 5.4.

Excellent distinction.   I have only had to add alkalinity to my tap water (seasonally varies from 60-100 ppm total alkalinity) for porter and stout,  not even dark lagers made from a majority of Munich malts.  (Other dark British beers follow the model of these Belgians,  with a pale mash easily pH-contolled, color derived from sugars and other colorants in the kettle.)

And I heartily agree that in all cases water treatment should be kept as simple as possible.   Rarely is it advantageous to attempt a precise mimicry of a reported historical/regional water supply,  especially as we usually have no idea how the brewer there is modifying that water!  Paramount should be achieving correct mash pH, with no ions reaching offensive levels.   My philosophy at least.
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Offline curtdogg

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2018, 11:41:51 am »
I try to live life according to the old KISS saying.

I normally adjust my mash pH with acid malt and then add all salts to the boil.
That just works for me.

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Offline denny

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2018, 11:44:21 am »
3787 responds the best, IMO, to no temperature control. I usually pitch at 64 and let it go. It hangs around 64-66 for about 24-36 hours and peaks around 73 around 4 days in.

In my situation, I can't do no temp control.  But I use that pretty much that same fermentation temp schedule, just controlled in my ferm chamber.

No basement? Too hot? Too cold?

Almost no one around here has a basement because the water table is so close to the surface.  Sometimes my garage is too hot, sometimes too cold.  And I have a temp controlled freezer so it's easy to do it that way.
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Big Monk

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2018, 11:53:31 am »
3787 responds the best, IMO, to no temperature control. I usually pitch at 64 and let it go. It hangs around 64-66 for about 24-36 hours and peaks around 73 around 4 days in.

In my situation, I can't do no temp control.  But I use that pretty much that same fermentation temp schedule, just controlled in my ferm chamber.

No basement? Too hot? Too cold?

Almost no one around here has a basement because the water table is so close to the surface.  Sometimes my garage is too hot, sometimes too cold.  And I have a temp controlled freezer so it's easy to do it that way.

Understood.

My preferred spot in the summer is in the corner of my laundry room by the sump pit. We have the AC on most of the time so the basement is typically around 66F ambient.

In the winter, I put it out on the counter in the finished basement to get it away from the furnace. It stays about 67-68F ambient then.

Offline ethinson

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2018, 06:04:51 am »
You all can argue about the mash schedule and recipe. For my money I don't like Ardennes in dark beers. I prefer the chimay yeast. Or rochefort.

Ardennes is one of my favorites. Just not in dark beers.


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I'm with ya on yeast choice, Joe

I think if i really had to choose between 3787, 1214, and 1762, i'd go with 3787 as an all around Trappist workhorse.

Plus, since i've had good luck brewing DSA with it and Westmalle doesn't have one, I usually call it my Westmalle Dark Strong Ale clone.  ;)

I don't think I knew Westmalle didn't make a dark strong.  My first two batches of DSA used the Westmalle Yeast (Imperial Triple Double).  I liked it, but it was missing something and also gave me a burnt plastic/smoke phenol that needed to be aged out (warm fermentation most likely).  On my most recent batch I switched to the Chimay yeast (Imperial Monastic) and it's amazing.  Great banana/clove aroma which is what I love about Belgians and none of that burnt smoke phenol.  I could drink this beer now instead of feeling like I need to bottle condition it for a year.  I still plan to age it, but might start pulling some bottles out earlier than the old batch.  I won medals with the Westmalle yeast, so no complaints, but I think the Chimay is more the flavor and aroma profile that I like.

I honestly don't remember why I picked the Westmalle yeast to begin with.  I imagine because Wyeast calls it "Trappist High Gravity" and I knew this beer was going to be 10%, so I thought that's what I needed.  The Chimay performed just fine. (I also know a lot more now about yeast health).
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Offline curtdogg

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2018, 02:33:14 pm »
I'm using what my local HBS had in stock for yeast. I plan on using Straffe Hendrix Quad dregs for conditioning.

My grain bill is a combo of some of my leftover grain and what my HBS had in stock.

10lbs 2 row
2lbs Honey malt
2lbs Pale Ale malt
8oz special roast 118L
8oz Aromatic
8oz Carapils
8oz Pale Chocolate
1 lbs Dark candi sugar



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Well, good luck!
Brew day was a success. I maxed out my Mash tun.  My OG was only off by 2 points. OG 1.082. according to BS3. I made a 2L starter, fermentation kicked off within a few hours.
Held temp at 65F for 7 days, ramped to 75F and held until fermentation stopped.
My TILT has been at 1.020 for 3 days now.
I will use my hydrometer this evening and see how far off the TILT is.

Thought or criticism?
 I understand I could of gotten more attenuation by using less specialty malts and even more sugar.



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Offline dannyjed

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2018, 06:03:24 pm »
You’re going to have to taste it and decide. Belgian beers should be well attenuated, but numbers can be hard to taste. Let your own palette be the judge.


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Offline curtdogg

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2018, 06:12:52 pm »
You’re going to have to taste it and decide. Belgian beers should be well attenuated, but numbers can be hard to taste. Let your own palette be the judge.


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Well said Danny, thank you.
I just sampled it.
The TILT was correct, Hydrometer showed 1.020.
Taste was good, In my opinion it was well balanced. I believe that was due to the water profile.

I'll keep it at 70F the rest of the week then ramp down to 40F over the weekend let it settle for a week then transfer to a storage keg to lager for a while.
 

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Big Monk

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2018, 01:09:14 pm »
Brew day was a success. I maxed out my Mash tun.  My OG was only off by 2 points. OG 1.082. according to BS3. I made a 2L starter, fermentation kicked off within a few hours.
Held temp at 65F for 7 days, ramped to 75F and held until fermentation stopped.
My TILT has been at 1.020 for 3 days now.
I will use my hydrometer this evening and see how far off the TILT is.

Thought or criticism?
 I understand I could of gotten more attenuation by using less specialty malts and even more sugar.

I typically see 82%+ AA even in first generation pitches without a starter. Sugar definitely plays a role but I also don't restrict temperature at all.

You had about 6% sugar which would be low for me. I typically push it to about 15%-18% for this style. Same for Tripel. I drop it a bit for Dubbel to around 8%-10%.

Offline narcout

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2018, 01:29:52 pm »
Held temp at 65F for 7 days, ramped to 75F and held until fermentation stopped.

I wonder what would have happened if you raised the temperature earlier.  I use 3787 a lot, and I usually start and hold it at 68° for 2 days and then let it rise into the low 70's. 
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Offline denny

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2018, 01:35:17 pm »
You had about 6% sugar which would be low for me. I typically push it to about 15%-18% for this style. Same for Tripel. I drop it a bit for Dubbel to around 8%-10%.

THIS^^^^
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Offline curtdogg

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2018, 03:34:35 pm »
I think BS3 had my attenuation at 79%.
I must have woken up the yeast a bit after sampling last night. This morning I checked the TILT again and it read 1.018.

Also the color looked nothing like BS3 predicted and I am not sure why.
I can no longer call it BDS.
It is more of a copper color.

I appreciate all the comments.

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Big Monk

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2018, 03:46:20 pm »
Also the color looked nothing like BS3 predicted and I am not sure why.
I can no longer call it BDS.
It is more of a copper color.

I appreciate all the comments.

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BeerSmith WAY overestimated the color of Dark Candi rocks. He takes the number on the package at face value. It’s much much lower.

Offline curtdogg

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Re: Belgian dark strong
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2018, 03:48:04 pm »
Thanks Monk, I'll look in to that.

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