[rodwha]

I’ve been looking for information comparing these 2. Naturally the boiled additional will raise the IBUs a hair but how else do these compare?

For instance if I were to use an ounce @ 5 mins vs and ounce for 3 days prior to bottling which will give the more pronounced aroma? And which will last longer?

I’ve read the xMbt comparing a 20 min boil addition vs a 20 min whirlpool. Not what I expected. I can’t seem to find anything comparing a dry hop to a late addition though.

Ultimately I’ve been making my IPAs (a bit overboard) with a 21 and 7 min boil addition as well as a healthy whirlpool and dry hop. I felt that the boil locked in those flavors/aromas for a longer period and the other additions just enhanced them. I would use 1/2 oz of Warrior for bittering and around 2 oz of high AA hops at both 21 and 7 mins along with about 4 oz at both a whirlpool and a dry hop. Without calculating the whirlpool IBUs I was usually getting close to 100 though they’ve never been perceived as very bitter.

I’d also like to understand the flavor longevity comparing a 15-21 min boil addition vs a whirlpool.

[hopfenundmalz]

Some of the aroma compounds only stay in the beer if you dry hop. That aroma that fills the brewing space when you put hops in the boil - that is all those. Those compounds can also oxidize readily.

You might try whirlpool additions. Nothing says you can't do late, whirlpool, and dry hops.

How did you arrive at 21 and 7 minute additions? Papazian's book

[denny]

I've pretty much stopped doing late additions in favor of dry hopping.

[BrewBama]

I was surprised to read Gordon Strong write that he’s gotten away from dry hopping many beers preferring the more refined aroma that you get from using a hopback or from adding hops at the end of the boil or in the whirlpool.  He reaffirmed my taste buds: I get grassy-ness from dry hopping or other cold processes and prefer hot processes also.


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[coolman26]

It has been a long time since I've dryhopped. I do want to fabricate a nice hopback.  I can see myself adding whirlpool hops and the to the hopback.  I do think that dryhop beers do carry a better aroma.  Then again I haven't brewed a real hop centered beer in a long time.  Ive been brewing stouts, saison, triple, and kolsch beers. Next up is BVIP, love that beer.  I found one that was several years old and it was really good.  Back to the OP, I don't think beers with late hops can be considered replacements for dryhopped beers.   

[ethinson]

For me the combo of both works.  I typically do a 60 minute charge of Magnum/Warrior then aroma hops at 10 minutes and then dry hop the last week before bottling.

My CDA is also around "100 IBU" (according to BeerSmith) but it's not that bitter. 

Just for the sake of argument, I would speculate that the dry hop would give a more pronounced aroma at first but then not last as long.  The isomerized acids (from hot side) should be more stable (since they don't boil off) and will last longer, but are perceived differently from the non-isomerized.  There's been a lot written lately about how you do in fact pick up IBUs during dry hopping, one of those articles might have some info you're looking for i.e. how soluble are the acids at room temp, how are sensory characteristics changed etc. 

[Robert]

  The isomerized acids (from hot side) should be more stable (since they don't boil off) and will last longer, but are perceived differently from the non-isomerized. 

The iso-alpha acids provide bitterness, not flavor or aroma.  Non-isomerized ones are irrelevant because they aren't present (but see the argument about bitterness from dry hopping.)

But more on topic.  It's the volatile hydrocarbons that give avor and aroma.  To be stable, they need time in hot wort to oxidize to a more soluble form, but boiling also drives some off.  This is where FWH comes in, as it provides time for the oils to become soluble before  boiling might drive them off.  The effect can be very stable, but different from either kettle hops,  late hops, or dry hops.  Each process gives a different effect, but generally the later the addition, the more ephemeral the effect.   It's worth trying all techniques and combinations, but remember, you can't have your cake and eat it.  There's always a trade off between freshness and intensity, and stability.  There's no substitute for fresh beer, I guess.  (As I mentioned above, British brewers ensure that their dry hopped cask ales are consumed within four days, and traditionally,  beers intended for bottling have not been dry hopped in the brewery.)

[rodwha]

All of my IPAs have used 1/2 of Warrior for bittering with something along the lines of 2 oz of high AA hops at both 21 and 7 mins followed by about 4 oz in a whirlpool (I don’t maintain a temp and it begins roughly at 185*) as well as in a dry hop. These were hitting close to 100 IBUs without any input from the whirlpool. These have never come off as bitter as say Torpedo, which I like.

Ultimately I’m working on simple recipes for 1.75 gals to use 0.1 oz of Centennial for bittering and alternate 0.56 oz (evenly splitting 2 oz) at 7, 14, and 21 mins to see what I see. Using Rager this provides 28, 33, and 40 IBUs.

[rodwha]

FWH, those added for bittering prior to the boil as you are heating up the wort just drained from the run, doesn’t this (bittering hops in general) become nearly devoid of the character we otherwise get in late additions?

[Robert]

According to studies, and IME, FWH does add flavor and aroma that is quite stable, again because of the long time oxidizing oils to permanently soluble form before boiling could drive them off.  But the oil profile is different from what you'd get with late additions.  I sometimes make beers with a FWH addition only.  The flavor and aroma is complex, deep, possibly as intense as any other method provides, very stable, but indeed different. Traditional practice both in Britain and on the continent used no middle or late additions, even in Pilsner and pale ales reputed for their aroma.  Late hopping is a relatively recent practice (though some American brewers started to adopt it before the turn of the 20th century,) which has changed our idea of "hoppy."  An interesting point is that DeClerck argued that late hopping was a waste, on the grounds that little bitterness or aroma is recovered, while he  argued that the quality of bittering hops should not be disregarded,  as the aroma of hops is preserved no matter when they are added.  This, I think, does indicate again how different our idea of "hoppy" is from that of not so very long ago.

[denny]

FWH, those added for bittering prior to the boil as you are heating up the wort just drained from the run, doesn’t this (bittering hops in general) become nearly devoid of the character we otherwise get in late additions?

I add them for flavor, not bittering.

[dannyjed]

I have never been able to match the aroma that I get from dry-hopping as compared to late/whirlpool additions. I've tried doing away with dry-hopping altogether by whirlpooling and hop stands, but I could never seem to get the hop aroma that I wanted.

[hopfenundmalz]

Stan Hieronymus has written about the importance of Thiols in aroma. Those sulfur compounds might only be parts per trillion, but our nose has an affinity for them.