[Pope of Dope]

Just brewed and kegged the following (no style in particular) BIAB. I wanted something dark that is also light and easy drinking. It tastes bitter (I think because of the black malt). Any comments would be appreciated. I'm wondering if it will mellow out in the keg?
GRAIN
15 lbs Marris Otter
.5  lbs French Kiln Coffee
2   lbs Munich
2   lbs Flaked Maize
1   oz  Black Malt (550L)
HOPS
1.5oz Northern Brewer @60
1   oz Northern Brewer whirlpool
YEAST
Notti (2 packs) Fermented at temp - 65f

OG: 1.072 - FG: 1.025 (ABV 6.17)

[Robert]

An ounce of black malt will be undetectable in there.  I use that much to give a very subtle color adjustment to very pale beers.  I'd think the bitterness is from the coffee.   Especially if it was in the mash, not cold brewed and added later. 

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[Pope of Dope]

Thanks Robert. I've never had the problem before with the FKC. It's not coffee, like the beans, but it's a flavored malt..."Adds deep mahogany color and coffee flavor to dark ales.
150-180° L. This unique malt imparts a pleasant coffee flavor. Use it in stouts, porters, brown ales, and Scottish ales."

[Robert]

Ok, I learned something!  Never heard of that malt.  But cold brewing with roast malt, just like you would with coffee, really mellows it out.  Then strain it into the boil near the end.  Denny and Drew had something about this on their podcast recently, and it's what I now do when I want to just get a little color from an ounce in a pale ale without flavor.  Keep the trick in mind for next time.

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[denny]

I have used kilned coffee quite a few times and I don't think it would cause bitterness in that small amount.

[Pope of Dope]

I remember that I roused the yeast, swishing around the fermenter quite a bit to try and shave off some gravity points. Maybe it's from the trub? Never had this problem before.

[mabrungard]

Wait a second. This was a freshly fermented beer with yeast still in suspension? Roast components stick to the yeast cells and can make it seem more roasty than it really is. I’d let it clear fully and make a better assessment then.

[Robert]

Wait a second. This was a freshly fermented beer with yeast still in suspension? Roast components stick to the yeast cells and can make it seem more roasty than it really is. I’d let it clear fully and make a better assessment then.

And yeast itself is mighty bitter.   Give it time.   

[Pope of Dope]

Thanks everyone.  It already has improved after just a week or so in the keg. One more question if I may. Referring to the recipe above, I was really hoping that the Notti would get me down to a much lower gravity. Obviously I didn't get enough fermentable sugars out of the grain, and that's with the 2 lbs of flaked maize to boot; I am really disappointed by the results. Does anyone else think so?

[Robert]

That's in the normal range for attenuation, what was your mash temperature?  Fermentability depends on that.  Maize will not give you more fermentable sugars than the rest of the grain, the sugar profile from the maize will be identical to that from the malt at whatever mash temperature.   It's just starch being converted by the same enzymes. To add additional fully fermentable sugars while mashing at a higher temperature to get dextrines, you would add simple sugars like dextrose, or cane sugar, to the kettle.  Anyway,  glad it's mellowing out.   RDWHAHB works again!

[Pope of Dope]

This was a 5.5 gal batch. Mash temp 152

[Robert]

So I recently did a porter.  It was a step mash program, but the average temperature was 153°F.  Fermented with Notti, got 65.7% AA, about the same as you got. 

[mabrungard]

Rob, how long was your mash? That makes a difference too.

[Robert]

Rob, how long was your mash? That makes a difference too.

This is when I was first playing with different programs getting used to Chevallier; I wouldn't do the first temperature again, I just wondered if some glucanase activity  was needed; it isn't, I now know.)  It was 135°F 15 min, 150°F 30 min, 160°F30 min, 170°F 10 min, ramping ~2°F/min. So 153°F average, and a total mash time of ~100 min. (FWIW I've settled on 151/160/170 for 45/45/15 with that base malt.  With that schedule,  10% invert, and Nottingham,  I've seen 77% AA.)

(This reminds me that the particular malt, with its particular enzyme package, matters too.  I'm aware of anecdotal reports that MO doesn't regularly attenuate as much as other modern British malts.)

[Robert]

MY APOLOGIES.   Just went back to my notes (beyond the mash program) and realized the porter in question was fermented with WLP007, not Nottingham.   But this may still be a valid comparison, because both yeasts are claimed to give the same attenuation.