[goose]

An important take-away from this discussion is that an extra malty chloride/sulfate ratio does not make your resulting beer maltier. Malt and the lack of bittering are what make beer malty. That is the reason why you no longer see me using terms like Malty or Bitter for the chloride/sulfate ratio. Those terms are FALSE.  Substituting the terms Full and Dry are more descriptive of the effects of chloride and sulfate.

Martin makes such am important point here that it bears emphasis.  I see too many brewers thinking that they can control this with water, when recipe design is the first thing to look at.

Absolutely!

[goose]

OK, I did some calculations using Martin's Bru'n Water program for your grain bill, HopDen.  Here is what I came up with.  The numbers are quite a bit different than the ones you originally posted but this profile has worked well for my Baltic Porters. 

Water profile London (boiled)
CA             42
Mg              5
Na             17
SO4           40
Cl              39
HCO3         79
Alkalinity    65
Hardness  127
RA             32
SO4/Cl         1.0
Predicted mash pH with these additions  5.23. (I almost always get really close to this predicted pH number within the accuracy of my pH meter)

This yields the following salt amounts for the mash (in grams) for 21.5 gallons
Gypsum               2.8
Calcium Chloride   4.52
Epsom Salt           4.3
Canning Salt         0.43
Baking Soda         4.3
Pickling Lime        2.15

I then calculated the salt addition for "seasoning" the kettle wort (in grams)  for 4 gallons, the difference between the mash volume and a kettle volume of 25 gallons.
Gypsum               0.46
Calcium Chloride   0.74
Epsom Salt           0.7
Canning Salt         0.07
No baking soda or pickling lime are added to the kettle.

As I said before and which Martin confirms, the only thing that goes into the sparge liquor is Phosphoric Acid to acidify the liquor to a pH of 5.2 - 5.6.  I shoot for the same pH as the measured pH of the mash.

Hope this helps for a future brew of this style.

[HopDen]

OK, I did some calculations using Martin's Bru'n Water program for your grain bill, HopDen.  Here is what I came up with.  The numbers are quite a bit different than the ones you originally posted but this profile has worked well for my Baltic Porters. 

Water profile London (boiled)
CA             42
Mg              5
Na             17
SO4           40
Cl              39
HCO3         79
Alkalinity    65
Hardness  127
RA             32
SO4/Cl         1.0
Predicted mash pH with these additions  5.23. (I almost always get really close to this predicted pH number within the accuracy of my pH meter)

This yields the following salt amounts for the mash (in grams) for 21.5 gallons
Gypsum               2.8
Calcium Chloride   4.52
Epsom Salt           4.3
Canning Salt         0.43
Baking Soda         4.3
Pickling Lime        2.15

I then calculated the salt addition for "seasoning" the kettle wort (in grams)  for 4 gallons, the difference between the mash volume and a kettle volume of 25 gallons.
Gypsum               0.46
Calcium Chloride   0.74
Epsom Salt           0.7
Canning Salt         0.07
No baking soda or pickling lime are added to the kettle.

As I said before and which Martin confirms, the only thing that goes into the sparge liquor is Phosphoric Acid to acidify the liquor to a pH of 5.2 - 5.6.  I shoot for the same pH as the measured pH of the mash.

Hope this helps for a future brew of this style.

Goose, thank you for taking the time to run this. I don't use Bru'n Water but I will def be making a donation. I also screen shot this post for future reference.

Thanks again!!

[curtdogg]

Lots to read!
If it hasn't been said already. In BS3 there is a box to check in the water section to exclude chalk additions.
I normally leave out the bicarbonate as well.

 However, I find a small amount of bicarbonate in dark beers enhances the roast flavor.



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[HopDen]

Lots to read!
If it hasn't been said already. In BS3 there is a box to check in the water section to exclude chalk additions.
I normally leave out the bicarbonate as well.

 However, I find a small amount of bicarbonate in dark beers enhances the roast flavor.



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Yes, there is a lot of reading in BS3. I just looked and it took me a minute but I finally found the box to exclude chalk.

Thanks for the input! Chalk has been placed in file 13!