[The Beerery]

Good thing you don’t drive a car, bank at a national bank,  own a credit card, own a cell phone, purchase internet from a provider, shop at a big box store, or basically anything we as Americans purchase/own. As those companies as just as nefarious.  Oh that’s right.  This is somehow different. 


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[rodwha]

Ummm, ok.

You’re right. Everyone’s just as evil. Integrity has been in the toilet for decades and we should just suck it up.

Apples and oranges again for most of what you mentioned...

[narvin]

NB and Midwest is my LHBS, they have treated me exceptionally well for the last 18+ years and won’t stop using them.  I know many employees personally and and most of this couldn’t  be farther from the truth. When I read this post all I see is a bunch of tin foil hat talk with no actual facts to back it up. 


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So, let's break this down rationally:

1) good people can still work at large corporations in a society that encourages monopolies by not enforcing strong regulations on corporations.

2) What you get out of a transaction by supporting a business in the short term may not equal what you get in the long term

3) historical data shows that monopolies always squeeze out smaller players in the end and then make consumers pay

I would say this is far from "tin foil hat talk" to anyone who understands, well, the fraud that is so-called competition in American business right now.  The SEC website has a record of all the yearly enforcement cases of the 20th century, and reading it will make you realize how little we currently do to prevent monopolies.  The unregulated free market is absolutely a threat to the competition that we praise as the hallmark of capitalism.

[The Beerery]

The point of the thread, was AB trying to take over the homebrew market. They have owned NB for what? 2+ years now?   The foil hat reference was directly to that.  What nefarious things have AB done to the homebrew market since the ownership? Unless I am missing something that would be exactly nothing. 

All the rest of the consumerism talk is side stepping the topic. 




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[Robert]

If taking over the homebrew supply market is the goal, then it appears that this predatory juggernaut has finally "risen to the level of its incompetence."

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[hopfenundmalz]

The OP said it was news to him that NB was owned by ABInbev. Has anyone else looked at his profile? His location is Isreal, so it could be it was news to him.

Most of my purchases are from AiH. They are local to me,  and I have known the owners for almost 20 years. AiH is not as big as NB, but they are bigger than most.

[reverseapachemaster]

NB and Midwest is my LHBS, they have treated me exceptionally well for the last 18+ years and won’t stop using them.  I know many employees personally and and most of this couldn’t  be farther from the truth. When I read this post all I see is a bunch of tin foil hat talk with no actual facts to back it up. 

Tin foil hat is the best way to reduce oxygen exposure. I thought you advocated that.

So confused right now.

[mainebrewer]

Anybody, besides me, wonder where the OP went? Over 2 weeks and 5 pages of discussion and no further word from the OP.!

[Slowbrew]

Anybody, besides me, wonder where the OP went? Over 2 weeks and 5 pages of discussion and no further word from the OP.!

Three posts over the course a month and then radio silence.  Maybe he decided we were boring, old, guys who didn't want to fight?  Funny thing is, he wouldn't be wrong. 

Paul

[Robert]

Anybody, besides me, wonder where the OP went? Over 2 weeks and 5 pages of discussion and no further word from the OP.!

Three posts over the course a month and then radio silence.  Maybe he decided we were boring, old, guys who didn't want to fight?  Funny thing is, he wouldn't be wrong. 

Paul

He was really an operative inside AB InBev HQ and has accomplished his objective here.  Now have I earned my tin foil hat?   

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[hopfenundmalz]

Anybody, besides me, wonder where the OP went? Over 2 weeks and 5 pages of discussion and no further word from the OP.!

Three posts over the course a month and then radio silence.  Maybe he decided we were boring, old, guys who didn't want to fight?  Funny thing is, he wouldn't be wrong. 

Paul

He was really an operative inside AB InBev HQ and has accomplished his objective here.  Now have I earned my tin foil hat?   

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I saw was from Israel, said OK. Maybe he
 was gathering data? How negative we are?

Tin foil is good.

[Phil_M]

All issues with monopolies and the SEC aside, let's focus what AB/Inbev does controls the majority of: Distribution.

I'm sick and tired of seeing everyone get the pitchforks out over who owns NB and why, while giving the more real threat a blind eye.

Here in MD, the distributors are the ones running the show. Sure, there's likely money from Ab/Inbev, MillerCoors, etc. helping fund things, but that matters little. They've come very close passing legislation that would have had ALL breweries selling beer to them. No self distribution, buy your own beer back from the distributor for your taproom. If they have the power to do that, they've got the power to make home brewing illegal. Or taxed to the point that it isn't feasible. Think about THOSE ramifications, and tell me I should care who owns NB.

Not saying that there aren't reasons to be concerned about AB/Inbev's intentions, but they're pulling your attention from the real threat.

[rodwha]

All issues with monopolies and the SEC aside, let's focus what AB/Inbev does controls the majority of: Distribution.

I'm sick and tired of seeing everyone get the pitchforks out over who owns NB and why, while giving the more real threat a blind eye.

Here in MD, the distributors are the ones running the show. Sure, there's likely money from Ab/Inbev, MillerCoors, etc. helping fund things, but that matters little. They've come very close passing legislation that would have had ALL breweries selling beer to them. No self distribution, buy your own beer back from the distributor for your taproom. If they have the power to do that, they've got the power to make home brewing illegal. Or taxed to the point that it isn't feasible. Think about THOSE ramifications, and tell me I should care who owns NB.

Not saying that there aren't reasons to be concerned about AB/Inbev's intentions, but they're pulling your attention from the real threat.

Absolutely! They’ve done quite similarly here in Texas. They’ve been fighting the little guys for years and their money has usually won out. Things have become slightly better but only to a point. Distribution. It’s one thing they weren’t supposed to be able to get into but somehow did. I’m unsure of how the 3 Tier solution failed but it did.

And again, knowing what they’ve been doing gives me pause in where they’re going with the rest.

[Robert]

I agree with this latest turn of the conversation.   I have often admitted that I don't care who makes my beer, I only care about the beer.  If you're an evil empire and make good beer, I'll drink it.  If you're a charming, Quixotic mom and pop, and make crap beer, you don't get my money.  You don't deserve charity, you got into the brewing business.  (And if you're a mom and  pop who made good and cashed in selling out to the evil empire, congratulations.  You weren't running a charity either.)  And I still fail to see the existential threat in owning a homebrew supply company or collecting data.   But co-opting the distribution system meant to preserve competition and an even playing field, to suffocate competition and deny the consumers any choice but to take what you shove down their throats, by effectively passing envelopes under the table in the proverbial smoke filled room -- yeah, that's the real threat.  That's where we need to focus our attention.  The sheer  number of breweries and brands-- SKUs to use the lingo -- versus the finite amount of shelf space and number of tap handles, makes it necessarily tremendously difficult for any brewer of any size to get a share of distribution.   It doesn't take much of an influence,  a butterfly effect as it were, to eliminate a whole sector of the market regardless of consumer demand.  The three tier system may have run its course. 

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[rodwha]

I agree with you for the most part, though I’m not buying evil empire beer because it allows them to purchase more At-Ats, and all the same I’m not buying crap beer from little Joe down the road because he’s local but doesn’t really get beer. Quite frankly I’d choose one of the 3 non them IPAs forever if that’s all I had to choose from, though we know I’d just brew my own, but I wouldn’t finance either.

And I don’t fault the little guy who made it and then took the money. I get it. Slaving your life away isn’t always a good thing, especially with a family. Money up front and plenty of it is nice for sure.