[Robert]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fullers-beer-business-sold-for-327-million-2019-01-25

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[BrewBama]

Interesting. I was just configuring my water profile for a London Pride-ish style Bitter for an upcoming brew day. Maybe I’ll get to taste the real thing soon enough.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Robert]

Well, you'll get to taste something sold under the trade mark.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[hopfenundmalz]

I'm hoping that the Griffon brewery keep making the beers that they do. Fuller's bought Gales, Dark Star, but was getting pressure from the big guys, and the little guys. A similar situation as BBC, Sierra Nevada, and other regionals have in the states. The Pub and Hotel side was much more profitable.

[Robert]

I get the impression that the Griffin brewery will continue as usual making the beers for the UK market (for now at least,)  but Asahi are getting the international trademark rights to do with as they please.  Following the Beer Orders ~20 years ago limiting the pub holdings of brewers, the majority of brewing companies found more money in the real estate than the beer.  Of course many great names simply went out of existence.   They were sold off in pieces (Bass for example sold its plants to Coors, now Molson Coors, trademarks to InterBrew, now AB InBev, and then the real estate got variously liquidated.)  In order for the reorganized brewing industry to be viable at all, further rounds of consolidation and shutdowns were necessary. Many of the old brewers' brands were continued for a short while by new licensees, but relatively  few still survive.  Ironically some brands that went extinct in the UK still survive internationally as mere trademarks -- Whitbread, Manns, Boddingtons  --  while some brands continue in some recognizable form in the UK while they are just exploitable trademarks internationally (like Bass Ale.)  And I'm afraid what we will get as "Fullers" will be just random liquid with a brand name slapped on, like the "Bass Ale"  AB InBev sells here.  Supplying pub accounts in the UK isn't where Asahi see potential for profit.  Whatever they do with their international trademarks,  let's hope they don't shut down the UK brewing operations at the first opportunity.  Perhaps Fullers' recent attempts to position themselves in the "craft" category will help.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[Phil_M]

Am I missing something about Asahi brewing?

It's been about a year since I bought it last, but Pilsner Urquell hadn't then changed under their ownership. Who's to say they'll do similar with Fullers? Seems a similar sort of brand: old historic beer, that with the proper marketing and shipping could stand on it's own feet.

Plus, Asahi Super Dry is pretty fantastic, when fresh of course.

[Robert]

Am I missing something about Asahi brewing?

It's been about a year since I bought it last, but Pilsner Urquell hadn't then changed under their ownership. Who's to say they'll do similar with Fullers? Seems a similar sort of brand: old historic beer, that with the proper marketing and shipping could stand on it's own feet.

Plus, Asahi Super Dry is pretty fantastic, when fresh of course.

True enough, Asahi may leave well enough alone.  But it appears (could be wrong) that there are no conditions on what they may do with the international trademarks,  so we'll see.   Maybe they will be more scrupulous and better stewards of the heritage they have assumed than, say, AB InBev would.   Who wouldn't be?  But Fullers was the last of its kind, it's really the end of an era.  And weve seen plenty of smaller breweries sold to big ones with the capacity to get them greatly increased distribution,  and it isn't generally good for the beer.  The difference I see with Pilsner Urquell is that PU  already had the production and distribution in place.  Asahi just assumed ownership.   But with Fullers it's more like a craft-bought -by-AB situation, the international production will lie entirely with Asahi or their other holdings.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[hopfenundmalz]

I get the impression that the Griffin brewery will continue as usual making the beers for the UK market (for now at least,)  but Asahi are getting the international trademark rights to do with as they please.  Following the Beer Orders ~20 years ago limiting the pub holdings of brewers, the majority of brewing companies found more money in the real estate than the beer.  Of course many great names simply went out of existence.   They were sold off in pieces (Bass for example sold its plants to Coors, now Molson Coors, trademarks to InterBrew, now AB InBev, and then the real estate got variously liquidated.)  In order for the reorganized brewing industry to be viable at all, further rounds of consolidation and shutdowns were necessary. Many of the old brewers' brands were continued for a short while by new licensees, but relatively  few still survive.  Ironically some brands that went extinct in the UK still survive internationally as mere trademarks -- Whitbread, Manns, Boddingtons  --  while some brands continue in some recognizable form in the UK while they are just exploitable trademarks internationally (like Bass Ale.)  And I'm afraid what we will get as "Fullers" will be just random liquid with a brand name slapped on, like the "Bass Ale"  AB InBev sells here.  Supplying pub accounts in the UK isn't where Asahi see potential for profit.  Whatever they do with their international trademarks,  let's hope they don't shut down the UK brewing operations at the first opportunity.  Perhaps Fullers' recent attempts to position themselves in the "craft" category will help.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

Yeah, preaching to the choir.

The Beer Orders, Bamforth loathes them as it caused the demise of Bass. It was 1989, and his opinion of Thatcher is also low because of it.

[Robert]

I get the impression that the Griffin brewery will continue as usual making the beers for the UK market (for now at least,)  but Asahi are getting the international trademark rights to do with as they please.  Following the Beer Orders ~20 years ago limiting the pub holdings of brewers, the majority of brewing companies found more money in the real estate than the beer.  Of course many great names simply went out of existence.   They were sold off in pieces (Bass for example sold its plants to Coors, now Molson Coors, trademarks to InterBrew, now AB InBev, and then the real estate got variously liquidated.)  In order for the reorganized brewing industry to be viable at all, further rounds of consolidation and shutdowns were necessary. Many of the old brewers' brands were continued for a short while by new licensees, but relatively  few still survive.  Ironically some brands that went extinct in the UK still survive internationally as mere trademarks -- Whitbread, Manns, Boddingtons  --  while some brands continue in some recognizable form in the UK while they are just exploitable trademarks internationally (like Bass Ale.)  And I'm afraid what we will get as "Fullers" will be just random liquid with a brand name slapped on, like the "Bass Ale"  AB InBev sells here.  Supplying pub accounts in the UK isn't where Asahi see potential for profit.  Whatever they do with their international trademarks,  let's hope they don't shut down the UK brewing operations at the first opportunity.  Perhaps Fullers' recent attempts to position themselves in the "craft" category will help.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

Yeah, preaching to the choir.

The Beer Orders, Bamforth loathes them as it caused the demise of Bass. It was 1989, and his opinion of Thatcher is also low because of it.

Did you notice this from Ron Pattinson?
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2019/01/ownership-of-uk-pubs-1990-2017.html?m=1

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[hopfenundmalz]

I get the impression that the Griffin brewery will continue as usual making the beers for the UK market (for now at least,)  but Asahi are getting the international trademark rights to do with as they please.  Following the Beer Orders ~20 years ago limiting the pub holdings of brewers, the majority of brewing companies found more money in the real estate than the beer.  Of course many great names simply went out of existence.   They were sold off in pieces (Bass for example sold its plants to Coors, now Molson Coors, trademarks to InterBrew, now AB InBev, and then the real estate got variously liquidated.)  In order for the reorganized brewing industry to be viable at all, further rounds of consolidation and shutdowns were necessary. Many of the old brewers' brands were continued for a short while by new licensees, but relatively  few still survive.  Ironically some brands that went extinct in the UK still survive internationally as mere trademarks -- Whitbread, Manns, Boddingtons  --  while some brands continue in some recognizable form in the UK while they are just exploitable trademarks internationally (like Bass Ale.)  And I'm afraid what we will get as "Fullers" will be just random liquid with a brand name slapped on, like the "Bass Ale"  AB InBev sells here.  Supplying pub accounts in the UK isn't where Asahi see potential for profit.  Whatever they do with their international trademarks,  let's hope they don't shut down the UK brewing operations at the first opportunity.  Perhaps Fullers' recent attempts to position themselves in the "craft" category will help.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

Yeah, preaching to the choir.

The Beer Orders, Bamforth loathes them as it caused the demise of Bass. It was 1989, and his opinion of Thatcher is also low because of it.

Did you notice this from Ron Pattinson?
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2019/01/ownership-of-uk-pubs-1990-2017.html?m=1

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

No, I don't read Ron's posts all of the time. Interesting trend. The wife and I have been discussing another UK trip in the not too distant future.

[hopfenundmalz]

Martyn Cornell's take on this sale. Well thought out.
http://zythophile.co.uk/2019/01/26/asahi-makes-massive-vote-of-confidence-in-future-of-cask-ale-with-250m-purchase-of-fullers-beer-business/

[denny]

Am I missing something about Asahi brewing?

It's been about a year since I bought it last, but Pilsner Urquell hadn't then changed under their ownership. Who's to say they'll do similar with Fullers? Seems a similar sort of brand: old historic beer, that with the proper marketing and shipping could stand on it's own feet.

Plus, Asahi Super Dry is pretty fantastic, when fresh of course.

Agreed.  Overalll Asahi has been pretty being n and low key when they make a purchase.

[Robert]

Martyn Cornell's take on this sale. Well thought out.
http://zythophile.co.uk/2019/01/26/asahi-makes-massive-vote-of-confidence-in-future-of-cask-ale-with-250m-purchase-of-fullers-beer-business/

Thanks for pointing this out.  A very optimistic take, but I still would think it should be observed that Asahi can make the same ROI much faster through international branding, at which point they may not take as keen a  interest in maintaining the domestic cask production.   I hadn't even thought about the value of the land under the brewery, but now wonder just what options on it might have been included.   That was the final nail in Young's coffin of course.  Hope the optimists are right.  And that the product we finally get over here will be true to the original.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[Phil_M]

Martyn Cornell's take on this sale. Well thought out.
http://zythophile.co.uk/2019/01/26/asahi-makes-massive-vote-of-confidence-in-future-of-cask-ale-with-250m-purchase-of-fullers-beer-business/

Thanks for pointing this out.  A very optimistic take, but I still would think it should be observed that Asahi can make the same ROI much faster through international branding, at which point they may not take as keen a  interest in maintaining the domestic cask production.   I hadn't even thought about the value of the land under the brewery, but now wonder just what options on it might have been included.   That was the final nail in Young's coffin of course.  Hope the optimists are right.  And that the product we finally get over here will be true to the original.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

This invites more PU comparisons, honestly. From what I can tell, under Asahi Pilsner Urquell has started a line of bars in the US where you can get fresh PU poured in the three Czech ways. I'm sure PU/Asahi don't own them being what the laws here are, but they're still behind a more traditional Czech experience there.

Why not follow a similar pattern with Fullers? I'd love to see them find a way to get cask Fuller's stateside. PU already has a fully refrigerated fast shipping setup...

[hopfenundmalz]

Martyn Cornell's take on this sale. Well thought out.
http://zythophile.co.uk/2019/01/26/asahi-makes-massive-vote-of-confidence-in-future-of-cask-ale-with-250m-purchase-of-fullers-beer-business/

Thanks for pointing this out.  A very optimistic take, but I still would think it should be observed that Asahi can make the same ROI much faster through international branding, at which point they may not take as keen a  interest in maintaining the domestic cask production.   I hadn't even thought about the value of the land under the brewery, but now wonder just what options on it might have been included.   That was the final nail in Young's coffin of course.  Hope the optimists are right.  And that the product we finally get over here will be true to the original.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

The Ram Brewery sat there decaying for years as the sale was a little before the last financial crisis. I just looked on Google maps, and it has been partially developed, And construction is on going as a crane can be seen. The smokestack, the stables, and the Brewery Tap are still there. Progress at a price, be it was such a historic brewery.