Author Topic: Pressure Fermentation at last  (Read 4495 times)

Offline Robert

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #135 on: June 16, 2019, 02:48:35 PM »
I am enjoying a Helles that I brewed on May 25, fermented at 50F and 12 PSI, racked on June 10.  As you reported on your results, it has a very clean, yet malty profile.  I see this as a very viable approach with lager beers.  S-189 yeast (Hurliman Strain) was used and re-pitched into 2 batches brewed on June 15 (yesterday).  I will report back on this first repitch with S-189 as it completes.  With the quick turns of these beers, I am facing storage shortage issues!
Great to hear it's working so well!  So, what was your procedure for racking the beer and harvesting the yeast -- was it all done under pressure, etc.?   
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline narcout

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #136 on: June 16, 2019, 03:20:20 PM »
EDIT I'm working beyond my charts here, but I'm guesstimating I'd get a good initial level of carbonation (it will of course be adjusted with bottled gas before serving) at around 1.5 bar/ 21-22 psig @ ~70°F?  Anybody who knows better, little help?

22 psi at 70° would get you 1.98 volumes, and 21 psi at 70° would get you 2.03 volumes.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #137 on: June 16, 2019, 03:30:43 PM »
EDIT I'm working beyond my charts here, but I'm guesstimating I'd get a good initial level of carbonation (it will of course be adjusted with bottled gas before serving) at around 1.5 bar/ 21-22 psig @ ~70°F?  Anybody who knows better, little help?

22 psi at 70° would get you 1.98 volumes, and 21 psi at 70° would get you 2.03 volumes.
Thanks, my charts stop at 60°F, can you point me to something that goes higher?
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline narcout

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #138 on: June 16, 2019, 03:55:10 PM »
I'm having trouble finding the website I downloaded this from, but you should be able to right click and save a copy from this post.

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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #139 on: June 16, 2019, 04:45:54 PM »
I am enjoying a Helles that I brewed on May 25, fermented at 50F and 12 PSI, racked on June 10.  As you reported on your results, it has a very clean, yet malty profile.  I see this as a very viable approach with lager beers.  S-189 yeast (Hurliman Strain) was used and re-pitched into 2 batches brewed on June 15 (yesterday).  I will report back on this first repitch with S-189 as it completes.  With the quick turns of these beers, I am facing storage shortage issues!
Great to hear it's working so well!  So, what was your procedure for racking the beer and harvesting the yeast -- was it all done under pressure, etc.?

Just spunded at 1.014.  Closed loop for racking with a touch of CO2 to push it to the keg through the keg out post then left at room temp for a couple days to d-rest and carb further, then cold crashed with CO2 hooked up.  Opened fermenter on next brew day to harvest yeast and clean and sanitize.  Racked chilled wort onto repitch of a half cake and splashed it around as it filled.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline Robert

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #140 on: June 16, 2019, 05:00:46 PM »
I am enjoying a Helles that I brewed on May 25, fermented at 50F and 12 PSI, racked on June 10.  As you reported on your results, it has a very clean, yet malty profile.  I see this as a very viable approach with lager beers.  S-189 yeast (Hurliman Strain) was used and re-pitched into 2 batches brewed on June 15 (yesterday).  I will report back on this first repitch with S-189 as it completes.  With the quick turns of these beers, I am facing storage shortage issues!
Great to hear it's working so well!  So, what was your procedure for racking the beer and harvesting the yeast -- was it all done under pressure, etc.?

Just spunded at 1.014.  Closed loop for racking with a touch of CO2 to push it to the keg through the keg out post then left at room temp for a couple days to d-rest and carb further, then cold crashed with CO2 hooked up.  Opened fermenter on next brew day to harvest yeast and clean and sanitize.  Racked chilled wort onto repitch of a half cake and splashed it around as it filled.
So do I understand, no slow decompression of the fermenter -- other than the drop accompanying cooling -- before popping the lid and harvesting?  I've been worried about exploding yeast with a sudden pressure drop.  If I understand correctly, and your repitch goes off well, then that's another important detail filled in.  It has occurred to me that opening a bottle is analogous, and that leaves live, viable yeast.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline Robert

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #141 on: June 16, 2019, 07:25:36 PM »
I'm having trouble finding the website I downloaded this from, but you should be able to right click and save a copy from this post.


Thanks.  Don't know why I didn't think to look sooner, but (of course) Brewer's Friend has a calculator that will figure pressure for ANY temperature and desired v/v CO2.   
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline mainebrewer

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #142 on: June 16, 2019, 08:29:00 PM »
For those of us using ProMash, it also has a utility that will calculate the required PSI at various temps necessary to reach a desired volume of CO2.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #143 on: June 17, 2019, 12:54:32 AM »
I am enjoying a Helles that I brewed on May 25, fermented at 50F and 12 PSI, racked on June 10.  As you reported on your results, it has a very clean, yet malty profile.  I see this as a very viable approach with lager beers.  S-189 yeast (Hurliman Strain) was used and re-pitched into 2 batches brewed on June 15 (yesterday).  I will report back on this first repitch with S-189 as it completes.  With the quick turns of these beers, I am facing storage shortage issues!
Great to hear it's working so well!  So, what was your procedure for racking the beer and harvesting the yeast -- was it all done under pressure, etc.?

Just spunded at 1.014.  Closed loop for racking with a touch of CO2 to push it to the keg through the keg out post then left at room temp for a couple days to d-rest and carb further, then cold crashed with CO2 hooked up.  Opened fermenter on next brew day to harvest yeast and clean and sanitize.  Racked chilled wort onto repitch of a half cake and splashed it around as it filled.
So do I understand, no slow decompression of the fermenter -- other than the drop accompanying cooling -- before popping the lid and harvesting?  I've been worried about exploding yeast with a sudden pressure drop.  If I understand correctly, and your repitch goes off well, then that's another important detail filled in.  It has occurred to me that opening a bottle is analogous, and that leaves live, viable yeast.

Yea, nothing special on the decompression, other than PRV pulled a few times over the course of the brewday.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline Robert

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #144 on: June 25, 2019, 06:01:45 PM »
Well, the 8th and final batch of this run finished at over 80% attenuation, in the range where it all started.  Why I don't know  -- maybe extra nutrients because this batch I used yeast scavenging to deoxygenate my liquor? -- but it again suggests that other factors affect yeast performance more than pressure.  I've confirmed what ynotbrusum indicated, no need to slowly decompress.   CP transfer, and the slurry is easily degassed with a couple of shakes of the fermenter.

I've got a fresh pitch of WLP833 propped up and ready, but I'm not going to do any more rigorous experiments, as with higher pressure, just now.  I've got a system in place that meets my needs, making superior lagers and allowing me to get the wort chilled as far as needed and pitched rapidly even with warmer groundwater -- not just convenient, but essential to minimizing O2 pickup.  It's Summer and I don't feel like doing the kind of detailed observation this has entailed so far.  Just going to keep the Summer quaffers coming, and then the Fests...

If ynotbrusum or anyone else generates new information on this topic, I hope they'll post it here.  I will too, when I get to it.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline edward

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #145 on: June 26, 2019, 03:42:18 PM »

Robert - thanks for sharing your experiences.  I have been occasionally fermenting under pressure for about a year now.  I have only done ~5 batches under pressure so far but I am going to be increasing my activities.  My main goal is to reduce/eliminate all exposure to oxygen post fermentation.

Instead of a corny keg I am using a 1/4 barrel Sanke keg using the Sanke Keg Tee adapter from Norcal Brewing Solutions (https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Sanke-Keg-Tee-Fermenter-Kit.html ). I started off using a 1/2 barrel keg and fermenting 11 gallons at a time, but that is just too damn heavy to move around.  I'm using the same style of homemade PRV that you are.

When transferring to the serving keg I tend to have a lot of foaming when the beer goes into that keg.  So that foam blows out the top before it is full.  I do try to maintain some head pressure in the serving keg to minimize but it tends to happen inevitably.  Are you using the PRV on the serving keg or something else to try to minimize this?

Offline Robert

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #146 on: June 26, 2019, 04:07:02 PM »
I've tried using the PRV for a counterpressure transfer, but I prefer this really simple hack:  Put a picnic tap on the gas post and keep slowly bleeding pressure, with the whole system set a little higher than the pressure was in the fermenter after cold crash.  I can prevent foaming, and I generally like to fill until beer (hopefully not foam) comes out the gas post, so I know the keg is definitely full and I can just dispense a pint or two to make headspace.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #147 on: June 26, 2019, 04:07:11 PM »
Here’s a diaphragm style Spunding Valve that is supposed to be better than the poppet style. YMMV

http://www.homebrewfinds.com/2019/06/hands-on-review-kegland-blowtie-diaphragm-spunding-valve.html


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Offline Robert

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #148 on: June 26, 2019, 04:11:47 PM »
Here’s a diaphragm style Spunding Valve that is supposed to be better than the poppet style. YMMV

http://www.homebrewfinds.com/2019/06/hands-on-review-kegland-blowtie-diaphragm-spunding-valve.html


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I've actually found no problem with the valve I'm using.  I've also seen no reason to hack it by replacing the spring, like Bobby at Brew Hardware does on the ones he sells.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline edward

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Re: Pressure Fermentation at last
« Reply #149 on: June 27, 2019, 06:35:04 PM »
I've tried using the PRV for a counterpressure transfer, but I prefer this really simple hack:  Put a picnic tap on the gas post and keep slowly bleeding pressure, with the whole system set a little higher than the pressure was in the fermenter after cold crash.  I can prevent foaming, and I generally like to fill until beer (hopefully not foam) comes out the gas post, so I know the keg is definitely full and I can just dispense a pint or two to make headspace.

That is freaking brilliant.