[The Beerery]

Is it really a wonder that brulosophy doesn’t understand technical and professional techniques? Its not what they do, which I am totally cool with.  It’s the improper proliferation of information that is my beef (read: clueless followers).   Anywho, you have the proper reading materials and I think you have came up with the proper solution. 

Remember.  Pros don’t ferment under pressure (hydrostatic) because they want to, it’s because they have too.  There are very few advantages to homebrewers in terms of scale, but this is one of them.   


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[goose]

Is it really a wonder that brulosophy doesn’t understand technical and professional techniques? Its not what they do, which I am totally cool with.  It’s the improper proliferation of information that is my beef (read: clueless followers).   Anywho, you have the proper reading materials and I think you have came up with the proper solution. 

Remember.  Pros don’t ferment under pressure (hydrostatic) because they want to, it’s because they have too.  There are very few advantages to homebrewers in terms of scale, but this is one of them.   


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Agreed.  However, i am curious about the results of Rob's experimental results..

[denny]

I will continue research and see if some feasible hybrid process emerges.  But Denny may have nailed it:  too finicky, no obvious advantage.   Guess for now I'm lugging CO2 tanks and lines around.

I picked up an extra CO2 tank and regulator so I have one where I ferment as well as another where I serve. 

[Robert]

I will continue research and see if some feasible hybrid process emerges.  But Denny may have nailed it:  too finicky, no obvious advantage.   Guess for now I'm lugging CO2 tanks and lines around.

I picked up an extra CO2 tank and regulator so I have one where I ferment as well as another where I serve.

I'm on my way right now to LHBS to do just that.  Great minds...

[Robert]

Is it really a wonder that brulosophy doesn’t understand technical and professional techniques? Its not what they do, which I am totally cool with.  It’s the improper proliferation of information that is my beef (read: clueless followers).   Anywho, you have the proper reading materials and I think you have came up with the proper solution. 

Remember.  Pros don’t ferment under pressure (hydrostatic) because they want to, it’s because they have too.  There are very few advantages to homebrewers in terms of scale, but this is one of them.   


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Agreed.  However, i am curious about the results of Rob's experimental results..

I'll definitely report on the finished beer.

[denny]

Finally was able to get ahold of Chris.  Here's one chart...there may be more to follow....sorry for the lousy formatting...

   Pressure Fermentation Experiment         
   John Blichmann         
General test conditions            
            
Made 30 gal of Helles wort and split into 4 separate 7 gal Cornical fermentors.  6 gal each. OG 1.047            
Fermentation temps were held by a upright freezer with digital override.              
Pressure was help to within approximately +/- 1 PSI with a venting pressure regulator and monitored with a gauge            
"Direct pitch WL 833 - 4 pure pitch each, no starter, 1.5 min pure O2 through 10 micron stone."            
Notes on SG at pressure - there was a lot of carbonation in the beer and I tried to clear all bubbles            
"off the finishing hydrometer, but even then I'd say +/- 0.001 is about all I can claim"            
            
            
Date   Lager    0 PSIG   15 PSIG   30 PSIG
            
Pitch temp   50 F   68 F   68 F   68 F
"May 11, 2017"   slow ferm    active ferm   active ferm   active ferm
"May 12, 2017"   1.046   1.024   1.018   1.030
"May 14, 2017"   1.040   1.015   1.013   1.016
"May 16, 2017"   1.032   1.012   1.012   1.012
"May 18, 2017"   1.025   1.011   1.012   1.012
"May 20, 2017"   diacetly rest         
"May 21, 2017"      Crash to 32 F   Crash to 32 F   Crash to 32 F
"May 22, 2017"            
"May 23, 2017"   Drop to 59 F         
"May 24, 2017"   Drop to 50 F         
"May 25, 2017"      Filtered & kegged   Filtered & kegged   Filtered & kegged
"June 2, 2017"   1.010         
"June 14, 2017"   Drop to 32F         
"July 6, 2017"   Filtered & kegged         

[Robert]

^^^^^
Thanks, Denny!   Note quite sure what to make of that, except that the effects of pressure may be strain-specific.  Or, as you put it, finicky.  I'll probably come back around to this at some point, when I need an object for my curiosity!

EDIT  Right now my project is (besides tweaking a recipe or two) interviewing candidates for my new house ale yeast.   When it comes time to do the same for lager (disenchanted with the whole 34/70 family,) it looks like 833 warm and under pressure might be a great thing to try.  See if my results align.

[BrewBama]

.... interviewing candidates for my new house ale yeast.   ....

You could try Imperial “House” A01


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[Robert]

Made 30 gal of Helles wort and split into 4 separate 7 gal Cornical fermentors.  6 gal each. OG 1.047            

"Direct pitch WL 833 - 4 pure pitch each, no starter, 1.5 min pure O2 through 10 micron stone."            

Denny,

Do you know if this means 4 pure pitches total because of the 4 way split, or 4 packs in each fermentor?   (If the latter.... Man, given a choice of making a starter, or blowing an extra $24 on each batch, I know where I'd be.... but I suspect a high pitch rate might also be a key to success with this procedure, if pressure suppresses yeast growth.)

[denny]

Made 30 gal of Helles wort and split into 4 separate 7 gal Cornical fermentors.  6 gal each. OG 1.047            

"Direct pitch WL 833 - 4 pure pitch each, no starter, 1.5 min pure O2 through 10 micron stone."            

Denny,

Do you know if this means 4 pure pitches total because of the 4 way split, or 4 packs in each fermentor?   (If the latter.... Man, given a choice of making a starter, or blowing an extra $24 on each batch, I know where I'd be.... but I suspect a high pitch rate might also be a key to success with this procedure, if pressure suppresses yeast growth.)

4 each as I recall.  I'll see if I can get any info from Chris.

[Robert]

Made 30 gal of Helles wort and split into 4 separate 7 gal Cornical fermentors.  6 gal each. OG 1.047            

"Direct pitch WL 833 - 4 pure pitch each, no starter, 1.5 min pure O2 through 10 micron stone."            

Denny,

Do you know if this means 4 pure pitches total because of the 4 way split, or 4 packs in each fermentor?   (If the latter.... Man, given a choice of making a starter, or blowing an extra $24 on each batch, I know where I'd be.... but I suspect a high pitch rate might also be a key to success with this procedure, if pressure suppresses yeast growth.)

4 each as I recall.  I'll see if I can get any info from Chris.

Thanks!  (If so, a little surprising the 50° batch didn't take off a little quicker.)

 It occurs to me that in a couple of months when Summer is coming, I'll want to do a couple CAPs and such -- just when warmer groundwater makes it harder to get to traditional lager pitching temperature with the IC.   This could be just the thing to try.  I've got parts on the way to rebuild my PRV assembly, hopefully a little less finicky and able to hold pressure in the 15-30 psi range.  From this chart, for 833, 15 psi at 68°F looks like the sweet spot.

[Robert]

Thanks to forum member Chris Julson who PM'd me about his interest in pressure fermentation.   I hope he'll jump on this thread and post anything he learns!  He sent this link which looks like it would have really helped before I started this process.

https://scottjanish.com/fermenting-dry-hopping-pressure/

If somebody referenced this before and I missed it, apologies!

[Robert]

Just built a new valve assembly,  definitely much better than the one I bought from MoreBeer.   Testing it out, holds pressure (no leaks, my work is good,) adjustment far less finicky and more stable, also greater (more useful) range.  Look forward putting it to use.   I do think sometime in the next couple of months I will try the warm, pressurized lager method, which could be handy for summer lager making.   Given all I've learned so far, it looks like a good plan would be to pitch warm (i.e. ~65°F, to be held throughout) but maintain atmospheric pressure until actively fermenting, then attach the valve and let pressure build naturally to ~15 psig.  Then crash, keg, and carbonate as usual. Hopefully will get back on this.

[BrewBama]

I used Sean’s tutorial years ago. http://seanterrill.com/2015/06/25/build-a-better-spunding-valve/comment-page-1/#comments


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[Robert]

I used Sean’s tutorial years ago. http://seanterrill.com/2015/06/25/build-a-better-spunding-valve/comment-page-1/#comments


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The one essential thing his design and mine have in common is the same Control Devices PRV, which seems pretty popular.  In testing it this afternoon,  I found his advice on adjustment -- set it where you think it goes, then another quarter turn -- might save me a lot of the trial and error he already went through! (Thanks, Sean!  BTW that didn't work with the MoreBeer unit, but sneezing in the next room could make that vent down.)  My design finally came together (with the PRV and gauge off Amazon,  and the QD and spare flare washers I already had) by just seeing what Ace hardware had to connect it all.  The swivel connector is handy feature I didn't initially have in mind.