[Iliff Ave]

Any idea if Herkules is a decent sub for Magnum?

[Robert]

Any idea if Herkules is a decent sub for Magnum?

I know it has largely replaced it in the German crop, FWIW.

[Iliff Ave]

Any idea if Herkules is a decent sub for Magnum?

I know it has largely replaced it in the German crop, FWIW.

Which means it is a decent sub?

[BrewBama]

Any idea if Herkules is a decent sub for Magnum?

I am not sure it is. http://www.hopslist.com/hops/dual-purpose-hops/herkules/

Ck this out: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/hop-substitutions/

It looks like Columbus, Horizon, and Nugget are listed but I am not so sure about them either.

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[Robert]

It is a substitute,  apparently, as far as the Germans are concerned.  Herkules and Merkur have rapidly replaced plantings of Magnum as the primary high alpha hops grown and used there, just as Magnum once displaced Northern Brewer.  So if you want a bittering hop for a German style beer, it should be appropriate.  (I've never used Herkules or Merkur, but would probably not hesitate in this usage.  If you're wondering if it's a substitute for dry hopping US Magnum in your SN Torpedo clone, well....)

You can compare all three here:

https://www.hopsteiner.com/variety-data-sheets/

[Iliff Ave]

I guess I am actually looking for a decent sub for Magnum.

I don’t normally pay attention to stats other than AA and oil%. I guess I should just look for something with similar stats. Warrior has similar cohumulin and beta acid. Maybe that’s a good one? Oh an Merkur does looks similar as well.

[BrewBama]

Warrior
Taurus
Simcoe
Nugget
Northern Brewer
Newport
Merkur
Horizon
Hallertau
Bravo

...all list Magnum as a substitute. But I ain’t buyin it.


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[Robert]

If you're using it for bittering, any bittering hop without a strong character of its own should work.  The most common bittering hop in the US for mainstream lagers is, I think, still Galena.  So that might be on the list. 

This is a good time to remember that the myth of low cohumulone being smoother is a myth.  Cohumulone is 50% more efficiently utilized (isomerized) than humulone.   So you will use less weight of high CoH hops at the same % total alpha to get a given amount of iso-alpha in your beer.*  This means less total hop material, thus reducing the amount of all the other bittering and astringent substances in hops (remember, a minor but significant portion of hop bitterness is from stuff other than alpha acids.)  Same reason you want high total alpha. There is no qualitative difference in the bitterness from humulone and cohumulone,  but the other substances are harsher. 

Given this, Herkules ought to be milder than Magnum, and I've read -- from Stan Hieronymus -- that it is.

So I wouldn't get hung up on looking for a chemical analysis that fits a certain profile,  just read descriptions of the flavor and aroma and find one that sounds like what you're after.  My $0.02.

*To compare the relative bittering power of two hops with different CoH levels, and adjust the amount of one to give the same amount of iso-alpha as another, you can use this formula:  Bittering Power =  Total Alpha * (1 + (%CoH/2))

[hopfenundmalz]

Herkules, it added a fruity note when I used it for bittering IIRC.

I agree with Robert on the bittering and COH levels.

[Iliff Ave]

Thanks for the explanation Robert. I’ve never been good at judging the “smoothness” of bittering hops. I’ve pretty much settled on Magnum for most beers. Guess I will just have to try something different in a lager and see what I get.

[goose]

If you're using it for bittering, any bittering hop without a strong character of its own should work.  The most common bittering hop in the US for mainstream lagers is, I think, still Galena.  So that might be on the list. 

This is a good time to remember that the myth of low cohumulone being smoother is a myth.  Cohumulone is 50% more efficiently utilized (isomerized) than humulone.   So you will use less weight of high CoH hops at the same % total alpha to get a given amount of iso-alpha in your beer.*  This means less total hop material, thus reducing the amount of all the other bittering and astringent substances in hops (remember, a minor but significant portion of hop bitterness is from stuff other than alpha acids.)  Same reason you want high total alpha. There is no qualitative difference in the bitterness from humulone and cohumulone,  but the other substances are harsher. 

Given this, Herkules ought to be milder than Magnum, and I've read -- from Stan Hieronymus -- that it is.

So I wouldn't get hung up on looking for a chemical analysis that fits a certain profile,  just read descriptions of the flavor and aroma and find one that sounds like what you're after.  My $0.02.

*To compare the relative bittering power of two hops with different CoH levels, and adjust the amount of one to give the same amount of iso-alpha as another, you can use this formula:  Bittering Power =  Total Alpha * (1 + (%CoH/2))

Thanks for your insight on CoH, Rob.  I had always heard that low CoH made a smoother, less harsh beer.  I will now adjust my thinking on this!

[Iliff Ave]

Well I picked up some Warrior, Horizon, and Herkules to test out. On a tight brewing budget means I'm always looking for cheaper alternatives....

[ynotbrusum]

I use Magnum as my bittering hop in German and American lagers and have subbed in Mercury, Hercules, and Warrior, without any problem, but I typically return to Magnum.  Maybe it’s in my head, but I like the results.