Author Topic: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)  (Read 6081 times)

Big Monk

  • Guest
"Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« on: February 07, 2019, 09:56:10 am »
REVISED - 5/20/2020

Here are the previous posts where we dug deep into the topic:

"Rochefort 4":
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=26158.45

"Rochefort 6 Clone":
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=30994.0

Here is my detailed writeup on the subject:

http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=717
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 10:43:41 am by Big Monk »

Offline narvin

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2618
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2019, 11:35:36 am »
Curious about the yeast.  In general I've never been much of a fan of White Labs 540.  I had better results cropping and reusing from a lower gravity batch, then making an 8/10.  Checking White Labs website now says "This strain may benefit from extra oxygen", but the brewery doesn't do open fermentations or rousing like a british top cropping strain.

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2019, 11:47:47 am »
Curious about the yeast.  In general I've never been much of a fan of White Labs 540.  I had better results cropping and reusing from a lower gravity batch, then making an 8/10.  Checking White Labs website now says "This strain may benefit from extra oxygen", but the brewery doesn't do open fermentations or rousing like a british top cropping strain.

I prefer 1762.

With that said, you should key in on the following:

"They brew two batches each day Tuesday to Thursday, and one on Friday morning. All seven of those batches go into the same fermenter, right on top of each other."

Each subsequent batch is being pitched, with yeast, on top of an already fermenting batch. Their yeast is conditioned for that, which could also explain why people report that 1762 in particular benfits from a few repitches before hitting it's stride.

Another cool thing to notice is the pitch rates:

6 = 0.86 10⁶/ml/°P
8 = 0.79 10⁶/ml/°P
10 = 0.66 10⁶/ml/°P

Most would look at that and say, "How the hell do they get away with a LOWER pitch rate for the 10?

Since we know that they repitch in order (slurry from the 6 into the 8 and 8 into the 10), and that they are performing a sort of drauflassen, you can imagine that by the time that stuff hits the 10, it's at what Duane Allman would have referred to as "full tilt boogie", i.e. very healthy.


Offline narcout

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2125
  • Los Angeles, CA
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2019, 11:49:24 am »
Have you brewed any of these yourself yet?  I could try the 6 or the 8 soon (maybe next month).

It's been years since I read BLAM, do we have any info regarding their mash process?  I'd probably start with my typical hochkurz.

Cool post, thanks for organizing all that information. 
Sometimes you just can't get enough - JAMC

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2019, 11:55:57 am »
Have you brewed any of these yourself yet?  I could try the 6 or the 8 soon (maybe next month).

It's been years since I read BLAM, do we have any info regarding their mash process?  I'd probably start with my typical hochkurz.

Cool post, thanks for organizing all that information.

I have not.

What I am planning to do, however, is to start brewing very small batches, on the order of 2.64 liters of finished beer, to experiment with these.

They never disclose the actual mash schedule in BLAM, but a simple 3 step along the lines of the following would probably work just fine:

Beta - 148 for 20-25 minutes
Alpha - 162 for 30 minutes
Mashout 172 for 10 minutes

Offline narcout

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2125
  • Los Angeles, CA
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2019, 03:11:59 pm »
They never disclose the actual mash schedule in BLAM, but a simple 3 step along the lines of the following would probably work just fine:

Beta - 148 for 20-25 minutes
Alpha - 162 for 30 minutes
Mashout 172 for 10 minutes

That I can handle (even more easily with some new equipment recently purchased).  It looks like I can order wheat starch from Amazon and Sinamar from one of the online homebrew shops.  Those will both be new ingredients for me.

I'll give the 6 a try.  Nothing about the recipe or process looks overly complicated.

And I just bought a half pound of Styrian Goldings, though I'll need to order some Hallertau. I assume that's H. Mittelfruh?

Dose Coriander @ 0.133 g/l

Think that's liters of post-boil volume?  I'll err on the conservative side.  Maybe I can find some of that Indian coriander at Whole Foods, which conveniently is also where I can pick up a bottle of real Rochefort 6.
Sometimes you just can't get enough - JAMC

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2019, 03:24:24 pm »
They never disclose the actual mash schedule in BLAM, but a simple 3 step along the lines of the following would probably work just fine:

Beta - 148 for 20-25 minutes
Alpha - 162 for 30 minutes
Mashout 172 for 10 minutes

That I can handle (even more easily with some new equipment recently purchased).  It looks like I can order wheat starch from Amazon and Sinamar from one of the online homebrew shops.  Those will both be new ingredients for me.

I'll give the 6 a try.  Nothing about the recipe or process looks overly complicated.

And I just bought a half pound of Styrian Goldings, though I'll need to order some Hallertau. I assume that's H. Mittelfruh?

Dose Coriander @ 0.133 g/l

Think that's liters of post-boil volume?  I'll err on the conservative side.  Maybe I can find some of that Indian coriander at Whole Foods, which conveniently is also where I can pick up a bottle of real Rochefort 6.

If you can get corn starch, that should be a very reasonable alternative. That what they used to use and it seems they only discontinued it for reasons of faith (GMO considerations).

Also, research indicates Hallertau may have been replaced with Aramis.

They add the coriander at the end of the boil so pre-boil would be the one.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 24942
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2019, 03:25:01 pm »
Those recipes look remarkably like what Herman Holtrop came up with 20 years ago.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2019, 03:36:03 pm »
Those recipes look remarkably like what Herman Holtrop came up with 20 years ago.

I only know of the Holtrop recipe for Rochefort 8, which is a bit different, i.e. specialty malts, dark Candi rocks, flaked corn, etc.

Are there different recipes?

If this recipe works out, I’d certainly be in good company. The Holtrop recipe is a classic. I shouldn’t say I either. I just simply took the brewery’s recipe for the 6 and scaled up.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 03:55:42 pm by Big Monk »

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 24942
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2019, 04:19:48 pm »
Those recipes look remarkably like what Herman Holtrop came up with 20 years ago.

I only know of the Holtrop recipe for Rochefort 8, which is a bit different, i.e. specialty malts, dark Candi rocks, flaked corn, etc.

Are there different recipes?

If this recipe works out, I’d certainly be in good company. The Holtrop recipe is a classic. I shouldn’t say I either. I just simply took the brewery’s recipe for the 6 and scaled up.

Yeah, those are differences, but they're based on what they were doing when he was there...plus some educated guessing!  He just scaled for the different versions, too, IIRC.  I'm looking forward to trying this version.  And I couldn't agree more about the 1762!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2019, 04:36:25 pm »
Those recipes look remarkably like what Herman Holtrop came up with 20 years ago.

I only know of the Holtrop recipe for Rochefort 8, which is a bit different, i.e. specialty malts, dark Candi rocks, flaked corn, etc.

Are there different recipes?

If this recipe works out, I’d certainly be in good company. The Holtrop recipe is a classic. I shouldn’t say I either. I just simply took the brewery’s recipe for the 6 and scaled up.

Yeah, those are differences, but they're based on what they were doing when he was there...plus some educated guessing!  He just scaled for the different versions, too, IIRC.  I'm looking forward to trying this version.  And I couldn't agree more about the 1762!

I’m going to update the OP tomorrow with the remainder of my research. I’m going to try and reorganize it into a more functional narrative from Mash to fermenter as well.

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2019, 06:09:02 am »
I fully revised the OP this morning with some fermentation discussion and my references.

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4956
"Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2019, 06:28:37 am »
Florida Crystals is a company I have used with great results and their Turbinado, Raw Cane Sugar and Raw Cane Invert Syrup is available in the grocery store.

My store carries Florida Crystals brand but I cannot find Raw Cane Invert Syrup. They have Lyle’s Golden Syrup but I am not sure it is invert. I am also not finding it on the Florida Crystals website. Have I overlooked something? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2019, 06:31:40 am »
Florida Crystals is a company I have used with great results and their Turbinado, Raw Cane Sugar and Raw Cane Invert Syrup is available in the grocery store.

My store carries Florida Crystals brand but I cannot find Raw Cane Invert Syrup. They have Lyle’s Golden Syrup but I am not sure it is invert. I am also not finding it on the Florida Crystals website. Have I overlooked something? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

https://www.floridacrystals.com/products/liquid-organic-raw-cane-sugar

I'm pretty sure it says invert on the actually ingredients section on the bottle.

Offline Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4214
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2019, 06:48:01 am »


Florida Crystals is a company I have used with great results and their Turbinado, Raw Cane Sugar and Raw Cane Invert Syrup is available in the grocery store.

My store carries Florida Crystals brand but I cannot find Raw Cane Invert Syrup. They have Lyle’s Golden Syrup but I am not sure it is invert. I am also not finding it on the Florida Crystals website. Have I overlooked something? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

https://www.floridacrystals.com/products/liquid-organic-raw-cane-sugar

I'm pretty sure it says invert on the actually ingredients section on the bottle.

Most cane syrup is not inverted.   Lyles Golden Syrup is partially inverted.  Can't say about the FC.  Making invert is very easy.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.