Author Topic: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)  (Read 6657 times)

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2019, 07:05:25 am »


Florida Crystals is a company I have used with great results and their Turbinado, Raw Cane Sugar and Raw Cane Invert Syrup is available in the grocery store.

My store carries Florida Crystals brand but I cannot find Raw Cane Invert Syrup. They have Lyle’s Golden Syrup but I am not sure it is invert. I am also not finding it on the Florida Crystals website. Have I overlooked something? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

https://www.floridacrystals.com/products/liquid-organic-raw-cane-sugar

I'm pretty sure it says invert on the actually ingredients section on the bottle.

Most cane syrup is not inverted.   Lyles Golden Syrup is partially inverted.  Can't say about the FC.  Making invert is very easy.

I can only go by what the bottle says, which i'm pretty sure is "Invert Syrup".

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2019, 08:32:40 am »
I'm looking forward to trying this version.

Are you still using ProMash?

I've been playing around with it again, as Excel runs a bit slow on my laptop. I was thinking of throwing some ProMash recipe files together.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25381
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2019, 10:16:46 am »
I'm looking forward to trying this version.

Are you still using ProMash?

I've been playing around with it again, as Excel runs a bit slow on my laptop. I was thinking of throwing some ProMash recipe files together.

Yep.  I don't see any reason not to.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline narcout

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2139
  • Los Angeles, CA
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2019, 12:27:20 pm »
Miraculously, I had a bit of free time last night, and this is what I came up with as an initial draft.

Roche #6

6 gallon batch, targeting 71% efficiency (no sparge)

11.75 lbs. German Pils (77%)
1.5 lbs. Wheat Starch (9.9%)
2 lbs. Brun Fonce (13.1%)

1 oz. Aramis (5%) at 60 minutes
1 oz. Styrian Goldings (2.5%) at 20 minutes
3 grams coriander seed at 5 minutes
77 grams Sinamar (flameout I suppose?)

Wyeast 1762 (pitch around 300 billion cells, assuming 5.25 gallons into the fermentor; oxygenate wort with tank/stone for 2 minutes)

Pitch yeast at 68°, hold for 2 days, and let free rise into the low 70s.

OG: 1.072
FG Target: 1.010-1.012 (it's been a long time since I've used 1762, not exactly sure what to expect in terms of AA%; I'll check my notes from the last time I brewed with it)
IBU: 18.5

Water (Using distilled and salts, I can't get to 80 ppm calcium without really overshooting the sulfate and chloride; I think this is a good compromise)

Calcium: 55 ppm
Sodium: 10 ppm
Sulfate: 74 ppm
Chloride: 58 ppm

8.75 ml of phosphoric acid in mash (much prefer acid malt these days though)

Bru'n Water projected mash pH = 5.4

Step mash with rests at 148°, 163°, and 170°

I'm assuming wheat starch has the same extract potential as flaked wheat, but I have no idea if that's true.  It's only 9.9% of the fermentables, so it shouldn't be a big deal as long as it's reasonably close.

That's everything I can think of at the moment.  Thoughts?
Sometimes you just can't get enough - JAMC

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2019, 12:53:14 pm »
3 grams coriander seed at 5 minutes

That checks out as far as the maths are concerned.

77 grams Sinamar (flameout I suppose?)

Yup. I would at it at the very end.
Wyeast 1762 (pitch around 300 billion cells, assuming 5.25 gallons into the fermentor

Sanity check -> M/ml/P = ( 300 / 17.5 ) / 19.87 = ~0.86

Looks good!

Water (Using distilled and salts, I can't get to 80 ppm calcium without really overshooting the sulfate and chloride; I think this is a good compromise)

Calcium: 55 ppm
Sodium: 10 ppm
Sulfate: 74 ppm
Chloride: 58 ppm

I didn't really go into this but it is impossible to match the flavor ions in their water exactly. Hit 50 ppm Ca and do the best you can with the other minerals. Nothing really different than what i would do for any beer.

I'm assuming wheat starch has the same extract potential as flaked wheat, but I have no idea if that's true.  It's only 9.9% of the fermentables, so it shouldn't be a big deal as long as it's reasonably close.

I'm honestly not 100% sure. I'd imagine the extract potential is more on the order of wheat malt but I can't be sure. I've assumed about 75% for starters.

I can't really see a reason not to use Corn Starch if it's easier to get. I would have to order Wheat Starch online to get some so I will be looking for a decent Corn Starch at the grocery store.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25381
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2019, 01:08:56 pm »
Why not add the Sinamar earlier?  I do it that way.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2019, 01:23:47 pm »
Why not add the Sinamar earlier?  I do it that way.

You would just want to make sure that you use the correct volume in the calculations.

Offline Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4214
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2019, 02:33:35 pm »
Why not add the Sinamar earlier?  I do it that way.
I used to add Sinamar, as well as sugars, late in the boil because, well, "they" say to.  (Never a good reason for anything.)  I've started adding it all as the wort comes to a boil because it makes things simpler for me.  I've noticed no difference doing it this way.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2019, 03:00:38 pm »
Why not add the Sinamar earlier?  I do it that way.
I used to add Sinamar, as well as sugars, late in the boil because, well, "they" say to.  (Never a good reason for anything.)  I've started adding it all as the wort comes to a boil because it makes things simpler for me.  I've noticed no difference doing it this way.

Right. So long as you use the right volume when dosing I can’t see it making a difference.

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2019, 08:05:33 pm »
As I sit doing some liquid research (a rare cache of Rochefort 6 was discovered at my local Wegmans!), I am inclined to say that, at least in reference to Rochefort 6, 20 SRM may be a bit high.

It looks closer to Chimay Premiere, which is about 15 SRM. 

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2019, 06:58:54 pm »
More “research” tonight with a chalice of Rochefort 8. My local grocery stores all just received major restocks of Rochefort, Chimay, and Westmalle.

I,lol be curious to take a look at the color on the 8, as well as the 10 that’s in the fridge. I have a feeling BLAM may have overestimated the colors on these.

I think 15, 24, 32 may be more appropriate then 20, 32, 45 (6, 8, and 10 respectively).

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 25381
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2019, 08:48:27 am »
More “research” tonight with a chalice of Rochefort 8. My local grocery stores all just received major restocks of Rochefort, Chimay, and Westmalle.

I,lol be curious to take a look at the color on the 8, as well as the 10 that’s in the fridge. I have a feeling BLAM may have overestimated the colors on these.

I think 15, 24, 32 may be more appropriate then 20, 32, 45 (6, 8, and 10 respectively).

What about the possibility that the color has changed since then?  Last time I had a Rochefort it seemed lighter than I recalled.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2019, 09:08:58 am »
More “research” tonight with a chalice of Rochefort 8. My local grocery stores all just received major restocks of Rochefort, Chimay, and Westmalle.

I,lol be curious to take a look at the color on the 8, as well as the 10 that’s in the fridge. I have a feeling BLAM may have overestimated the colors on these.

I think 15, 24, 32 may be more appropriate then 20, 32, 45 (6, 8, and 10 respectively).

What about the possibility that the color has changed since then?  Last time I had a Rochefort it seemed lighter than I recalled.

Certainly.

The 8 I drank last night had a  much less noticeable color difference as opposed to the 6 I drank Friday.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 09:29:35 am by Big Monk »

Offline narcout

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2139
  • Los Angeles, CA
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2019, 11:55:47 am »
@Big Monk

I've got a Saison planned for Friday night, but the Roche 6 is next on my list.  Are you interested in any of the details? If so, would you prefer that I post them here or start a new thread?
Sometimes you just can't get enough - JAMC

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: "Realfort" 6, 8, and 10 (Rochefort Recipe Discussion)
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2019, 05:44:39 pm »
@Big Monk

I've got a Saison planned for Friday night, but the Roche 6 is next on my list.  Are you interested in any of the details? If so, would you prefer that I post them here or start a new thread?

I would throw it right in here. I’ve structure the OP here to be a repository of the excruciating details and research so anything else in the thread is fair game.