Author Topic: Primary ferment at ale temps then lager or can I ferment and lager all at 38 deg  (Read 1249 times)

Offline AFD5001

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Hey all.
I have a kegorator and it has room for a 5 gallon big mouth bubbler. My question is can I brew a lager at ale temps for primary and then lager in my kegerator at 38 ( my sixtel on tap needs to stay cold).
OR
Can I primary ferment and lager all in the same vessel in the kagorator at 38, understanding it will take a long time?

Thanks for the help.

Offline Robert

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If you ferment at ale temperatures you won't get a true lager character with most lager yeasts.  Your second idea will work but will indeed take a long time.  A third option is to try one of the specialty lager yeasts that ferment cleanly at ale temperatures, that is, the "California lager" (steam beer) strains.  Your situation sounds like exactly what they're meant for.

(EDIT  remember,  it's in the fermentation, particularly the very early stages, lag period and logarithmic growth,  that the temperature-specific flavors of fermentation are produced.   Lagering just helps to physically clarify and stabilize the beer.  You don't actually have to "lager" a lager at all if you fine and/or filter it.)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 11:29:42 am by Robert »
Rob Stein
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Online denny

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Hey all.
I have a kegorator and it has room for a 5 gallon big mouth bubbler. My question is can I brew a lager at ale temps for primary and then lager in my kegerator at 38 ( my sixtel on tap needs to stay cold).
OR
Can I primary ferment and lager all in the same vessel in the kagorator at 38, understanding it will take a long time?

Thanks for the help.

Can you define what you mean by "ale temps"?  What temp are you talking about?
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Offline AFD5001

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Denny ~58-62 degree F.

Robert - I was thinking more like like a Helles Lager then a California common. I have done a common before but want the clean clean lighter body if the lager. I was even thing a hybrid strain but I am purely going off what I can do. My basement if the temp above. I can then lager in the kegerator. I was looking to do a simple SMASH of barely malt and herzbrucker 3 stage hops additions. Ferment on German lager yeast at cold temps for 6-10 weeks before bottle condition ( or if I get $ a corny and dual regulator to force carb).

Online denny

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Denny ~58-62 degree F.

Robert - I was thinking more like like a Helles Lager then a California common. I have done a common before but want the clean clean lighter body if the lager. I was even thing a hybrid strain but I am purely going off what I can do. My basement if the temp above. I can then lager in the kegerator. I was looking to do a simple SMASH of barely malt and herzbrucker 3 stage hops additions. Ferment on German lager yeast at cold temps for 6-10 weeks before bottle condition ( or if I get $ a corny and dual regulator to force carb).

At those temps, you can make a very lager like beer with Wy1007, especially at 58
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Online spurviance

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Denny ~58-62 degree F.

Robert - I was thinking more like like a Helles Lager then a California common. I have done a common before but want the clean clean lighter body if the lager. I was even thing a hybrid strain but I am purely going off what I can do. My basement if the temp above. I can then lager in the kegerator. I was looking to do a simple SMASH of barely malt and herzbrucker 3 stage hops additions. Ferment on German lager yeast at cold temps for 6-10 weeks before bottle condition ( or if I get $ a corny and dual regulator to force carb).

Brulosophy has done some experiments with fermenting different lager strains at 'ale' temps with varying results.  Depends on the exact strain you want to work with and what you want from that yeast.  Have you ever made a kolsch?  Kolsch yeast ferments warmer and can still produce a beer with lagerlike characteristics....
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Offline AFD5001

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Spurviance

I have made a Kölsch twice with poor outcomes. I really am looking to make a Helles Lager. Is there a yeast that will ferment in the high 30s right in primary? I have made many lager like ales but want to try for an actual lager. I unfortunately can’t can do 40-50 degree primary before cold lagering. Just curious if it can be done. May try it out to see with a gallon carboy.

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Spurviance

I have made a Kölsch twice with poor outcomes. I really am looking to make a Helles Lager. Is there a yeast that will ferment in the high 30s right in primary? I have made many lager like ales but want to try for an actual lager. I unfortunately can’t can do 40-50 degree primary before cold lagering. Just curious if it can be done. May try it out to see with a gallon carboy.

High 30s is gonna be pretty undoable.  Maybe mid 40s.  But if you can do 58, you're in lager range.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Online spurviance

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Spurviance

I have made a Kölsch twice with poor outcomes. I really am looking to make a Helles Lager. Is there a yeast that will ferment in the high 30s right in primary? I have made many lager like ales but want to try for an actual lager. I unfortunately can’t can do 40-50 degree primary before cold lagering. Just curious if it can be done. May try it out to see with a gallon carboy.

High 30s is gonna be pretty undoable.  Maybe mid 40s.  But if you can do 58, you're in lager range.

50-60 good ranger for most lager yeasts I’ve ever used.  Some people have found certain strains to perform well up into the high 60’s.   Brülosophy has some examples......http://brulosophy.com/2015/06/22/fermentation-temperature-pt-3-lager-yeast-exbeeriment-results/
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Offline BrewBama

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I use these fermentation guidelines in my brewery (with few exceptions):

Lager temperatures are generally 50-60*F. I normally use 55*F. I know Brülosophy does it hotter. I don’t. I am not in a hurry.

Ale temps are generally 60-70*F.  I normally use 65*F.

A Diacetyl rest is generally 70*F for a few days for maturation. Then reduce temp to 33*F to cold crash/condition/lager for a month or more.

I know of no yeast that can/will ferment wort into beer at 38*F. Maybe there’s a strain out there but I’ve not seen nor heard of it.



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Offline gws

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I know of no yeast that can/will ferment wort into beer at 38*F. Maybe there’s a strain out there but I’ve not seen nor heard of it.


Brettanomyces will (slowly)...but only when you don't want it to.
“Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne.”
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