Author Topic: Iodophor age  (Read 1381 times)

Offline jeffy

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Re: Iodophor age
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2019, 02:19:27 AM »
Wow.  Five pages, an expert, a lot of discussion, but not a clear answer to my original question, unless I missed it.  If I measure the proper amount of iodophor into a five gallon keg, seal it, then push it out with CO2 into another keg, there will be no air drying involved.  I'm OK with having a small amount of dilute liquid under the dip tube and I feel that that first corny keg is sanitized and ready to fill with beer.
Now what if I leave the other keg full of sanitizer until the next time I have beer ready to keg?  It's in the dark without oxygen in the head space.  It may be a couple of weeks before I push out the solution with CO2 into another keg.
From what I have read here, the answer is that this probably works, but since it is so cheap, why am I doing it?  Because I have lots of kegs and it's nice to clean and sanitize them at one time.
This weekend I think I will pull out a sample from a keg with three week old iodophor and check for amber color.  Will that be as definitive as a test strip?
Jeffy, something I don't quite get about your procedure.  If a little bit of iodophor is left in each keg, then from the second one on, they aren't completely filled to start.  You can surely invert the keg briefly to get full coverage.  But the headspace will be more and more as you go, which, it seems to me, means a little more air left unpurged each time -- which could affect not only the beer, but also the iodophor.  Am I missing something?

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I think we’re only talking a couple of teaspoons full.  Not enough to matter in my opinion.  None of the kegs is exactly the same volume.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Iodophor age
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2019, 02:21:22 AM »
Wow.  Five pages, an expert, a lot of discussion, but not a clear answer to my original question, unless I missed it.  If I measure the proper amount of iodophor into a five gallon keg, seal it, then push it out with CO2 into another keg, there will be no air drying involved.  I'm OK with having a small amount of dilute liquid under the dip tube and I feel that that first corny keg is sanitized and ready to fill with beer.
Now what if I leave the other keg full of sanitizer until the next time I have beer ready to keg?  It's in the dark without oxygen in the head space.  It may be a couple of weeks before I push out the solution with CO2 into another keg.
From what I have read here, the answer is that this probably works, but since it is so cheap, why am I doing it?  Because I have lots of kegs and it's nice to clean and sanitize them at one time.
This weekend I think I will pull out a sample from a keg with three week old iodophor and check for amber color.  Will that be as definitive as a test strip?
Jeffy, something I don't quite get about your procedure.  If a little bit of iodophor is left in each keg, then from the second one on, they aren't completely filled to start.  You can surely invert the keg briefly to get full coverage.  But the headspace will be more and more as you go, which, it seems to me, means a little more air left unpurged each time -- which could affect not only the beer, but also the iodophor.  Am I missing something?

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I think we’re only talking a couple of teaspoons full.  Not enough to matter in my opinion.  None of the kegs is exactly the same volume.
Okay.  I'm waiting for your report on the color of the sample you pull.  That will be the first concrete evidence on this question.

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Offline Robert

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Re: Iodophor age
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2019, 02:45:05 AM »
This whole thing finally motivated me.   Just ordered test strips.  :)

EDIT  Jeffy, if you're interested, search "iodine test strips" on Amazon.   Bunch of choices, all ~$8 for 100 strips.

« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 03:05:38 AM by Robert »
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Offline Craft Meister

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Re: Iodophor age
« Reply #63 on: February 27, 2019, 07:38:26 PM »
Wow.  Five pages, an expert, a lot of discussion, but not a clear answer to my original question, unless I missed it.  If I measure the proper amount of iodophor into a five gallon keg, seal it, then push it out with CO2 into another keg, there will be no air drying involved.  I'm OK with having a small amount of dilute liquid under the dip tube and I feel that that first corny keg is sanitized and ready to fill with beer.
Now what if I leave the other keg full of sanitizer until the next time I have beer ready to keg?  It's in the dark without oxygen in the head space.  It may be a couple of weeks before I push out the solution with CO2 into another keg.
From what I have read here, the answer is that this probably works, but since it is so cheap, why am I doing it?  Because I have lots of kegs and it's nice to clean and sanitize them at one time.
This weekend I think I will pull out a sample from a keg with three week old iodophor and check for amber color.  Will that be as definitive as a test strip?

I apologize for not providing a clear answer to the original post on this thread.

Your method will work just fine, and will achieve the desired outcomes of clean and sanitized kegs in an efficient manner.  The fact that the kegs are pressurized, in the dark, and clean of organic material will ensure that the BTF Iodophor solution is viable for the job.  As long as the kegs you sanitize and purge in this fashion remain pressure rated, they will stay in a sanitized state until use.  Exposure to outside air through a. Leak would compromise this. 

I would welcome your input regarding a test of the solution in storage with a test paper at the end of the process, but if kept pressurized and sealed, in the dark, I would imagine this solution would be viable for quite a while - it’s just difficult to give you an exact length of time.

In addition, small amounts of properly measured, 12.5 PPM BTF Iodophor, such as barely a tablespoon, will dilute out into such extremely small concentrations in your finished beer that it will be undetectable.  I refer again to the PDF I linked in an earlier post for a good experiment:

https://www.bayareamashers.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Iodophor.pdf

I sincerely hope this helps and please contact me if there are unanswered questions.
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Offline Craft Meister

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Re: Iodophor age
« Reply #64 on: February 27, 2019, 08:01:07 PM »
The main reason we stress the air drying aspect for using the BTF Iodophor solution is that those instructions are stated specifically on our label.  With EPA regulated products, instructions, methods, and applications are strictly adhered to, especially for commercial use.


Air Dry?? I had to go into the brewery and take my bottle off the shelf and read the instructions, but it does say that. The REALLY troubling thing is: "Why did EPA require this?" or  "Why did National Chemicals agree to this requirement?"

I'm afraid that you've just opened a can of worms, but I'm still not about to begin air drying a piece of equipment and have it pick up mold spores. As far as I'm concerned, air drying would bring iodophor back to being no better than an acid-based sanitizer...ineffective against mold spores.

There is a good reason for indicating air drying.  Since the initial application of BTF Iodophor was a third sink sanitizer for sanitizing bar glassware, food code and sanitary guidelines need to apply for standard three compartment sink ware washing.  Here is a document from the ServSafe safe food handling program:

https://www.servsafe.com/ServSafe/media/ServSafe/Documents/poster_12.pdf

Dishes, utensils, glasses, etc. that are sanitized in a third sink must be air dried (not towel dried), inverted on a rack before using again or before storage.  The instructions on BTF Iodophor to air dry before use reinforce the application of the product as a bar and restaurant third sink sanitizer.

For the use of BTF Iodophor as a sanitizer for home brewing, I don’t feel it is required to completely air dry equipment for brewing, such as kegs or carboys, etc.  Shaking off or draining out as much of the end use solution as possible will suffice.  See the quote from Dr. Landman in the article I linked earlier:

https://www.bayareamashers.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Iodophor.pdf

“”NO RINSE” is a phrase that is frequently used in conjunction with iodophor. Manufacturers of Iodophor claim that, when used in a solution of 12.5 ppm, there is no need to rinse to solution from items. They say that the item should be merely air dried. Dr. Landman opined that air drying wasn’t really necessary.”

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Offline JT

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Re: Iodophor age
« Reply #65 on: February 27, 2019, 11:54:44 PM »
That makes sense.  Star San, Sani Clean, Io Star - they all say the same thing regarding air drying.  Always wondered why and it makes sense that we wouldn't want them towel dried.  Easy to forget that the solutions weren't made specifically for my home brewing

Offline jeffy

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Re: Iodophor age
« Reply #66 on: February 28, 2019, 01:23:14 AM »
I tapped a sample tonight from a corny keg marked “iodophor 1/12/19, transferred to this keg 2/17/19.”
The color is pale yellow if not lighter.  Almost no color.
I will see if my local store has test strips this weekend, but the color tells me that it’s not a viable solution.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Offline Craft Meister

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Re: Iodophor age
« Reply #67 on: February 28, 2019, 08:12:11 PM »
I tapped a sample tonight from a corny keg marked “iodophor 1/12/19, transferred to this keg 2/17/19.”
The color is pale yellow if not lighter.  Almost no color.
I will see if my local store has test strips this weekend, but the color tells me that it’s not a viable solution.

Interesting.  Sounds like there’s a very small amount of Iodophor still present, but you will need to verify the concentration with a test strip to be sure.  I’ll be interested to see how this tests out when you can measure.
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Offline Joe T

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Re: Iodophor age
« Reply #68 on: February 28, 2019, 08:42:48 PM »
I recently listened to a Master Brewers Association podcast episode titled "Efficacy of sanitizers in the brewery" in which a Brewer from Bell's discussed an experiment they conducted on kill rates of sanitizers after switching from ethanol to iodophor for spot spraying valves, etc.

Long story short, after the experiment they switched back to ethanol. Lots of great info there. It's worth a listen.


Offline Robert

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Re: Iodophor age
« Reply #69 on: February 28, 2019, 08:58:44 PM »
I recently listened to a Master Brewers Association podcast episode titled "Efficacy of sanitizers in the brewery" in which a Brewer from Bell's discussed an experiment they conducted on kill rates of sanitizers after switching from ethanol to iodophor for spot spraying valves, etc.

Long story short, after the experiment they switched back to ethanol. Lots of great info there. It's worth a listen.
We had a lengthy discussion here about that when it came out.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=32077.0

Long story short, that study's methodology was so fundamentally flawed that it couldn't pass muster in a grade school science fair.  That it got as far as a poster presentation at MBAA is a warning to regard with suspicion anything they promulgate.  Iodophor is a stone killer, no question.
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Offline Joe T

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Re: Iodophor age
« Reply #70 on: February 28, 2019, 09:32:44 PM »
Damn you, Internet!

Offline Robert

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Re: Iodophor age
« Reply #71 on: March 01, 2019, 07:34:25 PM »


I tapped a sample tonight from a corny keg marked “iodophor 1/12/19, transferred to this keg 2/17/19.”
The color is pale yellow if not lighter.  Almost no color.
I will see if my local store has test strips this weekend, but the color tells me that it’s not a viable solution.

I just tested some with the strips I got (same brand hopfenundmalz posted about above.)  12.5 ppm is a WAY lighter, yellowish, color than what I expected.   You might be ok, but you'll have to test to find out.   It will be good to recalibrate my eyeballing of the color.  I've probably been wasting concentrate because I thought it looked too weak.
Rob Stein
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Offline jeffy

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Re: Iodophor age
« Reply #72 on: March 02, 2019, 09:48:40 PM »


I tapped a sample tonight from a corny keg marked “iodophor 1/12/19, transferred to this keg 2/17/19.”
The color is pale yellow if not lighter.  Almost no color.
I will see if my local store has test strips this weekend, but the color tells me that it’s not a viable solution.

I just tested some with the strips I got (same brand hopfenundmalz posted about above.)  12.5 ppm is a WAY lighter, yellowish, color than what I expected.   You might be ok, but you'll have to test to find out.   It will be good to recalibrate my eyeballing of the color.  I've probably been wasting concentrate because I thought it looked too weak.
I picked up some test strips today and checked the solution in the above keg.  It was pretty much no color change on the strip.  I then tested a solution I had made up this morning to sanitize bottles and equipment and it looks like it reads about 12.5 ppm.  Interestingly, if I look at the latter in the tub (about 7 inches deep) it is mid amber in color, but in a typical judging cup, the liquid is almost colorless.  So if you are going to use color of the liquid as an indication, you need a deep enough sample.
I think I will experiment a bit with kegs and age to see how that progresses.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
Homebrewing since 1990
AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member
BJCP judge since 1995