Author Topic: Advice for multi-stage yeast starters, please?  (Read 453 times)

Offline Silicon

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Advice for multi-stage yeast starters, please?
« on: March 04, 2019, 02:25:07 AM »
I'm looking for advice on a 2- or 3-stage yeast starter. I'm thinking of the following method, so would some of you more experienced folks lend a hand with a confirmation and/or advice, please?

My equipment: 3000ml Erlenmeyer flask (boro), stir plate, Wyeast yeast, DME, Wyeast nutrient blend

Here's what I'm planning:
If I do a 1.5L starter, assuming 100B starting yeast cells, I should finish with 181B cells (i.e. 1.8x multiplier). If I split the starter into 2 flasks, each being a 2nd stage (using chill & decant), wouldn't I end up with (0.9B * 1.8) * 2 = 3.24B cells?

* White Labs video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zUYxb-_B8A (6:12 mins into video)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 06:39:23 AM by Silicon »

Offline Richard

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 267
Re: Advice for multi-stage yeast starters, please?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2019, 05:12:29 AM »
I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but my calculations give wildly different results, Try the calculator here:

http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

or this one:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/


Original Gravity - that would be Newton's

Offline Bjørn

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Advice for multi-stage yeast starters, please?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2019, 08:38:18 AM »
I'm looking for advice on a 2- or 3-stage yeast starter. I'm thinking of the following method, so would some of you more experienced folks lend a hand with a confirmation and/or advice, please?

My equipment: 3000ml Erlenmeyer flask (boro), stir plate, Wyeast yeast, DME, Wyeast nutrient blend

Here's what I'm planning:
If I do a 1.5L starter, assuming 100B starting yeast cells, I should finish with 181B cells (i.e. 1.8x multiplier). If I split the starter into 2 flasks, each being a 2nd stage (using chill & decant), wouldn't I end up with (0.9B * 1.8) * 2 = 3.24B cells?

* White Labs video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zUYxb-_B8A (6:12 mins into video)

If you don't do an actual cell count you'll never know. The most important thing is that you pitch viable yeast, and that your cell count is in the ball park. There are a number of calculators out there that will do this for you.

Instead of splitting the starter into separate flasks, you have the option of decanting the 1st starter and add fresh wort on top of the existing yeast cake in you Erlenmeyer flask.

Offline goose

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 340
Re: Advice for multi-stage yeast starters, please?
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2019, 01:35:41 PM »
I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but my calculations give wildly different results, Try the calculator here:

http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

or this one:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

The yeast calculator in BeerSmith also works pretty well.  It too will  get you in the ballpark.
Goose Steingass
Wooster, OH
Society of Akron Area Zymurgists (SAAZ)
Wayne County Brew Club
Mansfield Brew Club
BJCP Certified
AHA Governing Committee Member

Offline a10t2

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4594
  • Ask me why I don't like Chico!
    • SeanTerrill.com
Re: Advice for multi-stage yeast starters, please?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2019, 12:38:22 AM »
Assume 100-150 billion new cells per liter of ~1.030 wort. If you want to end up with ~320B cells total, put the pack in a 2 L stirred starter and if anything you'll probably be overpitching a bit.
Sent from my Microsoft Bob

Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
Refractometer Calculator | Batch Sparging Calculator | Two Mile Brewing Co.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 20736
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Advice for multi-stage yeast starters, please?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2019, 05:43:27 PM »
To quote Chris White, "homebrewers are too hung up on numbers"
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Online Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3665
Re: Advice for multi-stage yeast starters, please?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2019, 06:38:25 PM »




Assume 100-150 billion new cells per liter of ~1.030 wort. If you want to end up with ~320B cells total, put the pack in a 2 L stirred starter and if anything you'll probably be overpitching a bit.


To quote Chris White, "homebrewers are too hung up on numbers"

Assume a 2L starter will start your beer.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 20736
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Advice for multi-stage yeast starters, please?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2019, 11:53:43 PM »




Assume 100-150 billion new cells per liter of ~1.030 wort. If you want to end up with ~320B cells total, put the pack in a 2 L stirred starter and if anything you'll probably be overpitching a bit.


To quote Chris White, "homebrewers are too hung up on numbers"

Assume a 2L starter will start your beer.

1L is what I use for almost everything
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Online Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3665
Re: Advice for multi-stage yeast starters, please?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2019, 12:10:25 AM »




Assume 100-150 billion new cells per liter of ~1.030 wort. If you want to end up with ~320B cells total, put the pack in a 2 L stirred starter and if anything you'll probably be overpitching a bit.


To quote Chris White, "homebrewers are too hung up on numbers"

Assume a 2L starter will start your beer.

1L is what I use for almost everything
So it's safe to assume 2L will do the job.  You know, not getting hung up on the number of liters either.  :)
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 20736
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Advice for multi-stage yeast starters, please?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2019, 09:27:09 PM »




Assume 100-150 billion new cells per liter of ~1.030 wort. If you want to end up with ~320B cells total, put the pack in a 2 L stirred starter and if anything you'll probably be overpitching a bit.


To quote Chris White, "homebrewers are too hung up on numbers"

Assume a 2L starter will start your beer.

1L is what I use for almost everything
So it's safe to assume 2L will do the job.  You know, not getting hung up on the number of liters either.  :)

Absolutely!  You'll just be pitching more starter wort.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Online Robert

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3665
Re: Advice for multi-stage yeast starters, please?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2019, 11:32:01 PM »




Assume 100-150 billion new cells per liter of ~1.030 wort. If you want to end up with ~320B cells total, put the pack in a 2 L stirred starter and if anything you'll probably be overpitching a bit.


To quote Chris White, "homebrewers are too hung up on numbers"

Assume a 2L starter will start your beer.

1L is what I use for almost everything
So it's safe to assume 2L will do the job.  You know, not getting hung up on the number of liters either.  :)

Absolutely!  You'll just be pitching more starter wort.
OP said he was planning to chill and decant,  so no worries there.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.