[mabrungard]

With 4500w, I’m typically ramping the circulating wort to the next temp step instantly. Of course, that means that there is a wave of hotter wort descending through the mash bed and the overall wort temp doesn’t reach my target for another 5 to 10 minutes. But that doesn’t really matter. It just means that some of the wort spent more time at the lower step. The temperature of the wort coming out of the RIMS heater is all that matters.

[BrewBama]

My RIMS responds very similar to Martin’s system.


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[MattyAHA]

How fast do you think it would take a 1650 watt element raise the temp for a step? For example from 148F to mash out? i am thinking about getting a rims package from brew hardware down the line but only if it does not take too long , does having a insulated mash tun make a difference in the speed it heats up?

[BrewBama]

I have a 1650 ULWD element in a tube and controller from Bobby.  https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/rimspackagetc.htm I am very happy with it though I’ve already replaced the temp probe. However, I haven’t gone straight from 148*F to mash out so I can’t answer your question. I do multiple incremental steps which the system handles very quickly.


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[Richard]

How fast do you think it would take a 1650 watt element raise the temp for a step? For example from 148F to mash out? i am thinking about getting a rims package from brew hardware down the line but only if it does not take too long , does having a insulated mash tun make a difference in the speed it heats up?

You didn't specify your batch size, but if you have 8 gallons of water and 13 lbs of grain, a 1650 Watt element would give you 1.3 F/min rise as the maximum. Any losses or inefficiencies would lower this, and yes, insulation helps reduce those losses. That means that the time to go from 148 F to 168 F would be 15 minutes or longer.

[Robert]

I presume HERMS would be noticeably slower?  I have a feeling my assumptions  have been correct.  "Upgrading" to any such system, given ramp times, setup, and cleanup of the various additional valves, tubes, elements, etc. (and all cleaning, for that  matter, of an integrated system being pushed back to the end of the day, rather than each piece of no-moving-parts equipment being hosed down step by step as I go) could easily add a couple of hours or more to my brew day, and a lot more tedious tasks as well.  I really fail to see the appeal.  But I'm not other people.  Oh wait, is the appeal getting rid of those annoying piles of money lying around in the way?  Again, I'm not other people.  That's just how I see it.

[BrewBama]

Can’t speak to the HERMS system. My RIMS tube and element takes about a minute to clean. The pump takes about ten minutes because I completely disassemble it after ever brewday but I usually do it the next morning. I installed quick disassemble valves so they take a couple minutes.  Other than that it the same Brew Bag, MLT, BK, and other equipment that I used when single infusion mashing so there’s no increase in cleaning time there.

Edited to replace “batch sparge” with the more accurate “single infusion mashing”.

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[Robert]

That's cool.  Of course you have kind of a hybrid system, not like some of the rack-type or all-in-one, full-auto systems. The biggest difference between you and me is really just how we heat the mash. You show there's a continuum of possibilities between cheap-and-easy Denny and The Beerery (not judging either one.)   We all fall comfortably at different points on it.   All just stuff worth considering in context of this thread.

[Richard]

I presume HERMS would be noticeably slower?  I have a feeling my assumptions  have been correct.

I have no actual experience with either RIMS or HERMS systems, but I believe you are correct. The temperature rise calculation for a RIMS system is pretty straightforward, based on thermal mass and power. A HERMS system is more complicated, but my physical intuition tells me that it would almost certainly be slower because you have an additional mass of water to heat and you have the inefficiency of the heat exchanger to deal with.

[ynotbrusum]

Yes, the Herms is slower than the Rims, evidently, for the reasons cited.  I measure my temp at the return to the mash by a Tee at the lid with a digital probe.  What I have gone to is a manual step mash along the Hochkurz range, just bumping the temp a bit every couple minutes.  I like the results.  Otherwise the ramp times were about 10-12 minutes when measured at the center of the mash.  Occasionally I will do a hold at single temp, such as 147-149F, and the results are generally okay, but with no mash out, I see a little difference in head retention.

[goose]

FWIW, I have a modified RIMS system that in addition to the 1650 watt electric heating element (3300 watt element at 220V that I run on 110 V), there is a burner under the mash tun.  I can raise the mash temp from 148 to 168 in about 10 minutes.  I keep the electric element going all the time and use the burner to bump the temp in increments.  For example, I set the PID to 168, keeping the recirc running, and light the burner at a low flame to keep from scorching the wort.  When the PID shuts off the electric heat, I kill the burner, let the temp stabilize and repeat until I get to the mash out temp.  It works well for me.
Just another idea.

[Robert]

Since MattyAHA said in #26 that he's going with a brew stand and a stainless mash tun he already has, this could be a workable solution for him.  Burner for now, add the RIMS tube later to fine tune and stabilize the system.  I like stuff you Macgyver yourself and can continually modify to suit your needs.

[Richard]

FWIW, I have a modified RIMS system that in addition to the 1650 watt electric heating element (3300 watt element at 220V that I run on 110 V), ...

Not that it matters a lot here, but running at half voltage doesn't give you half power, it gives you 1/4 power.

[narcout]

How fast do you think it would take a 1650 watt element raise the temp for a step? For example from 148F to mash out? i am thinking about getting a rims package from brew hardware down the line but only if it does not take too long , does having a insulated mash tun make a difference in the speed it heats up?

I just bought a Unibrau v3 which has a 1600W element, though not in the classic RIMS tube configuration.

First time using it (2 weeks ago), I brewed a no sparge Saison with 10.5 lbs. of grain and 8 gallons of strike water.  It was able to ramp the full mash from 148° F to 163° F in 13 minutes.  The fastest you would want to do that is 8.3 minutes (using the rule of thumb of no faster than 1° C per minute).

I was then able to step from 163° to 168° in 5 minutes (fastest you would want to do that is 2.8 minutes).

I was pretty happy with that.

[MattyAHA]

http://www.homebrewing.com/equipment/king-kooker-brewing-system/ Might even go with this and build another tier and remove the the small burner and put it with the HLT up top and the middle tier will just be a shelf for the mash, no burner but will add rims later and the jet burner down low for the kettle, i think im gonna save alot cash and get the same function, just gotta have a boil kettle to be the right height so its not taller then the mash tun output