Author Topic: BrewtanB, who uses it  (Read 1007 times)

Offline narcout

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Re: BrewtanB, who uses it
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2019, 08:42:00 PM »
In an MBAA podcast, Joe F. said that this (just prior to filtration and packaging) is the way to go if you are using it either for clarification or to chelate metals to forestall oxidative staling in packaged beer; he was doubtful that its addition anywhere on the hot side would have any significant effect in these regards, but acknowledged that some people (mainly homebrewers) who lack the ability to incorporate the standard cold side processes might try it in the mash and evaluate it for themselves. 

That's strange because the spec sheet specifically notes that there are various formulations of the product designed to be used at different stages (for example, Brewtan C and Brewtan F) and that Brewtan B should be used during the mash and/or the boil.
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Offline BrewBama

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BrewtanB, who uses it
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2019, 08:51:18 PM »
In an MBAA podcast, Joe F. said that this (just prior to filtration and packaging) is the way to go if you are using it either for clarification or to chelate metals to forestall oxidative staling in packaged beer; he was doubtful that its addition anywhere on the hot side would have any significant effect in these regards, but acknowledged that some people (mainly homebrewers) who lack the ability to incorporate the standard cold side processes might try it in the mash and evaluate it for themselves. 

That's strange because the spec sheet specifically notes that there are various formulations of the product designed to be used at different stages (for example, Brewtan C and Brewtan F) and that Brewtan B should be used during the mash and/or the boil.

I agree. That is an odd statement given the information he gave Denny that specifically says to use it in the mash and boil.

“The amounts I was given by a factory rep are in volume, not weight, so that's what I use.  1/4 tsp. per 5 gal. of mash and sparge water.  That means fpr 5 gal. of mash water you'd use 1/4 tsp. and for 3 gal. of sparge water you'd use a bit over 1/8 tsp.  Then 15 min. before end of boil 1/2 tsp. mixed with a bit of wort per 5 gal.  Using volume is OK in this case because you just don't have to be tenth of a gram accurate.”

...and experimental brewing: “Joe recommends a dosing rate of 1/4 tsp (0.5gm) per 5 gallons of sparge/mash water and 1/2 tsp (1.0gm) dissolved into a beer slurry and added to  the boil at 16 minutes. It's a wee amount!”



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Offline Robert

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Re: BrewtanB, who uses it
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2019, 08:52:26 PM »


In an MBAA podcast, Joe F. said that this (just prior to filtration and packaging) is the way to go if you are using it either for clarification or to chelate metals to forestall oxidative staling in packaged beer; he was doubtful that its addition anywhere on the hot side would have any significant effect in these regards, but acknowledged that some people (mainly homebrewers) who lack the ability to incorporate the standard cold side processes might try it in the mash and evaluate it for themselves. 

That's strange because the spec sheet specifically notes that there are various formulations of the product designed to be used at different stages (for example, Brewtan C and Brewtan F) and that Brewtan B should be used during the mash and/or the boil.

And he seemed dismissive of that usage of B, which made me take notice.  IIRC he recommended A be used early on, as it is intended to select proteins in the mash so as to fix a permanent haze in hazy beers.  The spec sheet may have been written by someone more interested in promoting product rather than having actual technical expertise?   It's a very old product they're trying find a new market for, after all.  And this may be getting pretty fine, but:  as I recall, the spec sheet words it something like "use in mash and boil is becoming popular;" it doesn't say this is actually recommended usage.  Pretty slick?
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Offline BrewBama

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BrewtanB, who uses it
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2019, 08:58:48 PM »


In an MBAA podcast, Joe F. said that this (just prior to filtration and packaging) is the way to go if you are using it either for clarification or to chelate metals to forestall oxidative staling in packaged beer; he was doubtful that its addition anywhere on the hot side would have any significant effect in these regards, but acknowledged that some people (mainly homebrewers) who lack the ability to incorporate the standard cold side processes might try it in the mash and evaluate it for themselves. 

That's strange because the spec sheet specifically notes that there are various formulations of the product designed to be used at different stages (for example, Brewtan C and Brewtan F) and that Brewtan B should be used during the mash and/or the boil.

And he seemed dismissive of that usage of B, which made me take notice.  IIRC he recommended A be used early on, as it is intended to select proteins in the mash so as to fix a permanent haze in hazy beers.  The spec sheet may have been written by someone more interested in promoting product rather than having actual technical expertise?   It's a very old product they're trying find a new market for, after all.  And this may be getting pretty fine, but:  as I recall, the spec sheet words it something like "use in mash and boil is becoming popular;" it doesn't say this is actually recommended usage.  Pretty slick?

It’s pretty specific on the website:

“Brewtan B

Mashing In

Process

Brewtan B, which is dissolved in the mash water prior to the raw materials, increases the antioxidant power, inhibits LOX-enzymes, reduces the formation of aldehydes and is a very good metalchelating agent.

Result

A remarkable increase in flavor stability. Also, the lautering performance is improved by up to 30% with a higher extract quality and an increased brewhouse yield.

Boiling

Process

Brewtan B, which is added just before the transfer to the whirlpool or proportionally during transfer to the whirlpool at the end of boiling, is an easy way to obtain a good colloidal stability early in the process. Brewtan B increases the hot-break formation, whirlpool yield and also improves the antioxidant power of the beer.

Result

Less tank bottoms, shorter maturation times and longer filter runs with a reduction in processing aids, stabilizers and filter aids.”

https://www.ajifoodsolutions.com/products/brewtan/


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« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 09:29:01 PM by BrewBama »
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: BrewtanB, who uses it
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2019, 10:07:39 PM »
My impression is that the website may not be as current as Joe's statements.  They may have done more studies since the material appeared on the website and fine tuned the application for commercial brewers a bit?  I know I like my process and the results, so I don't think I will add it just before packaging - my beer is pretty clear at that point!
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Offline Robert

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Re: BrewtanB, who uses it
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2019, 01:10:42 AM »
I have added 1/4 - 1/2 tsp to 8 gallons of water for a couple of mashes. It turns my water purple, but I haven't noticed any other benefits.
Just filtered and treated tomorrow's water,  trying it again.  I feel kind of left out, because I have never experienced the magic, purple water.  ;)
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Offline Richard

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Re: BrewtanB, who uses it
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2019, 03:10:10 AM »
If you give me your address I can send you a bottle full of purple water, or a bottle of water that will turn purple when you add Brewtan B to it. My starting water is municipal water that comes from the Hetch Hetchy system (http://bawsca.org/water/supply/hetchhetchy ). This comes from snowmelt in the Sierra Nevada mountains, which is delivered to a local reservoir and is treated with chloramine. It is very low in mineral content but tends to be very high pH. I generally measure 9.3 - 9.6 pH, although sometimes I measure as low as 8.8. Because the mineral content is low it doesn't take much in the way of dark grain or acid additions to lower the mash pH to the 5.2 - 5.6 range. I am not sure what causes the purple color, but I have seen it every time i have added Brewtan B and never otherwise.
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Offline Robert

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Re: BrewtanB, who uses it
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2019, 03:18:15 AM »


If you give me your address I can send you a bottle full of purple water, or a bottle of water that will turn purple when you add Brewtan B to it. My starting water is municipal water that comes from the Hetch Hetchy system (http://bawsca.org/water/supply/hetchhetchy ). This comes from snowmelt in the Sierra Nevada mountains, which is delivered to a local reservoir and is treated with chloramine. It is very low in mineral content but tends to be very high pH. I generally measure 9.3 - 9.6 pH, although sometimes I measure as low as 8.8. Because the mineral content is low it doesn't take much in the way of dark grain or acid additions to lower the mash pH to the 5.2 - 5.6 range. I am not sure what causes the purple color, but I have seen it every time i have added Brewtan B and never otherwise.

The cause has been speculated about a few times on the forum.  I think the front running hypothesis so far was some reaction with iron.   You've neatly ruled that out it seems.  pH might have something to do with it.   Unlike most municipal supplies, mine is nearly neutral (~7.3.) The good thing is, nobody's getting purple beer.  It is a curiosity.
Rob Stein
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Offline coolman26

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Re: BrewtanB, who uses it
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2019, 12:07:01 AM »
I have been using it in the mash and boil since it became available. I like the results. I feel I have increased break and the beers that I have bottled stay fresh longer. I do feel the clarity has improved too. I always felt that 6 months was the threshold for my lighter beers. I just finished my last sixer of Kolsch. I saved a case to try as it aged. I brewed it late Jan of 18. I thought it was still really good. Not like fresh no doubt, still totally drinkable. My bottling procedures have changed some, but at that age I have to think it is its use. I will continue to use it. I don’t see any reason I will be using it at packaging.


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Offline Robert

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Re: BrewtanB, who uses it
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2019, 12:22:51 AM »
I used it both mash and boil again this weekend, first time in a long time using both doses (I'd used it in the mash again recently,) and I paid close attention.  I can't of course say for sure what it did in the mash, but it didn't hurt, as far as I can tell.   In the boil, it may well have enhanced the function of the Whirlfloc.  Can't be certain, but maybe. So many other factors.  At any rate, wort from the lauter tun and into the fermenter were both crystal clear.   I can get that otherwise, but.  How much BTB contributed I don't know, it doesn't seem to have hurt.  I suppose the takeaway is that BTB is at most one part of a whole regime,  not a magic ingredient that will by itself radically improve your process or your beer.  But as long as I have some around I suppose I'll start tossing it in again.  Thing is, I'll probably never know if it extends shelf life.  My beer is fermented in a closed process, kegged, stays cold its whole life, and that life is short.  But it's like yeast nutrient maybe.  Cheap insurance you may not need.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.