Author Topic: Brunwater profile for German Helles Export (formerly Dortmund Export) style?  (Read 453 times)

Offline mainebrewer

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Any recommendations on a water profile for this style?
The Dortmund profile seems pretty minerally. But, the style guidelines do describe "minerally water with high levels of sulfates, carbonates and chlorides"
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I used Yellow Dry in my latest effort.


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Online Robert

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I think Yellow Balanced works too, since the style should be somewhat rounder and mellower than Pils.  Your call. 

A good rule is always to ignore alleged profiles of the authentic or historic water of a given brewing city.  We don't know how the brewers treat their water, all do treat, and analyses of Dortmund beers suggest that the brewing water there is significantly demineralized.   Just adjust your water to give your beer the character you want.  Like they do.
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Offline mainebrewer

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Thanks, I was leaning toward the yellow dry but forgot to include that in my post.
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Offline goose

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Yellow dry is a good profile.  I have also used Munich (boiled) for my Helles with good results.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Some of the Munich Brewers have deep wells that have low mineral content water. Augustine's is one. Though just outside of Munich, Ayinger has a well that is 1800+ ft deep. You taste the water from that well on the tour. It only tastes wet!
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Offline mabrungard

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Since I researched and inserted a Dortmunder water profile into Bru'n Water, I figured I had to try it out with a Dort. I can tell you that it is a very minerally profile. I produced a solid Dort with notable bittering and a great, clean malt profile (LODO method), but the minerallyness of the beer was distracting to me.

I'd recommend cutting the sulfate and chloride levels that I published in half to produce a less minerally perception in the finished beer. That would still give you some minerally character without going overboard. If you're not really interested in a minerally perception, then Yellow Dry should be an acceptable option. Having a decent sulfate content in your water is definitely helpful for a Dort.
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Martin,

DeClerck says of Dortmund, "[t]he mashing liquor is highly charged with carbonates and calcium chloride."  No mention of sulfate, even though he gives an analysis of Dortmund water, somewhat different from yours, but still showing the sulfate level more than double the chloride. Could he be referring to an alternate water source used by the brewers, or might this reflect some treatment?  (It seems to me that sulfate dominating chloride is inconsistent with his description of the quality of the beer.)
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Offline mabrungard

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The water used in Dortmund is no longer from Dortmund. They moved their water source quite a distance from the city due to its hard and minerally quality. Therefore, its difficult to truly ascertain what the quality various brewers in Dortmund used. As typical for many breweries, they often had their own well.  I don't doubt that DeClerck found a well with a differing profile.

The one thing that brewing with the Dortmund profile taught me was that the thing I had hypothesized was true: high sulfate with high chloride is the recipe for minerally flavor. Contrast that with the Pale Ale water profile that has similar high sulfate content but modest chloride. I don't find beers brewed with the Pale Ale profile to be minerally. The chloride level in the Dortmund profile that I published is at 130 ppm which is roughly double the content of the Pale Ale profile.

The bottom line is a warning based on my experience: don't mineralize your water too much...especially in a malt-focused beer.

 
Martin B
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Offline mainebrewer

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I'd recommend cutting the sulfate and chloride levels that I published in half to produce a less minerally perception in the finished beer. That would still give you some minerally character without going overboard. If you're not really interested in a minerally perception, then Yellow Dry should be an acceptable option. Having a decent sulfate content in your water is definitely helpful for a Dort.

Martin, thanks, I'll give that a try next time.
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