Author Topic: Brewtan Experiment Writeup  (Read 1765 times)

Offline MaltMaker

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Re: Brewtan Experiment Writeup
« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2017, 02:06:10 PM »
Both are processed via solvent extraction and spray dried.  Anjimoto's marketing gives "standard process" details, such as "the solvents are carefully chosen to eliminate a variety of impurities"  but that is just general product marketing speak and in a food grade manufacturing environment, making food grade product, would be considered standard practice.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Quality-Gallnut-Extract-Tannin-Powder_60439975611.html

At any rate, I'm really not arguing, just pointing out that there is nothing that stands out as especially unique about Anjimoto's product or process.  If you feel comfortable purchasing it then by all means do so.  I'm more of an experimenter and risk taker and wouldn't be afraid of the Chinese product.

Offline Joel5000

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Re: Brewtan Experiment Writeup
« Reply #61 on: April 21, 2017, 05:53:22 PM »
People using municipal source water and copper components are going to immediately see and taste a difference for sure. The impact of Brewtan B alone is going to decrease the farther away from those variables you get.


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What is the significance of copper components?  I use a copper wort chiller and haven't had any problems that I'm aware of.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Brewtan Experiment Writeup
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2017, 05:06:27 AM »
IMHO BrewTan B is just a repackaged, target marketed, and overpriced version of one (or a mix) of these readily available products.

That's almost like calling 10W-30 a repackaged, target marketed  and overpriced version of a combination of crude oil products.

What you consider overpriced, many others will consider as "value-added", and worth the extra cash to acquire in proven, ready-to-use format.

That said, I'm probably going to get a packet of the Scottlab FT Blanc for the hell of it the next time I place a MoreBeer order. I'm not currently a Brewtan user, but for a couple of bucks I'd be willing to try the wine product. I'm probably going to brew a light-ish lager with at least one of my tubes of WLP925, so I'll give this a go then.
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Offline MaltMaker

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Re: Brewtan Experiment Writeup
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2017, 05:50:52 AM »
IMHO BrewTan B is just a repackaged, target marketed, and overpriced version of one (or a mix) of these readily available products.

That's almost like calling 10W-30 a repackaged, target marketed  and overpriced version of a combination of crude oil products.

What you consider overpriced, many others will consider as "value-added", and worth the extra cash to acquire in proven, ready-to-use format.

That said, I'm probably going to get a packet of the Scottlab FT Blanc for the hell of it the next time I place a MoreBeer order. I'm not currently a Brewtan user, but for a couple of bucks I'd be willing to try the wine product. I'm probably going to brew a light-ish lager with at least one of my tubes of WLP925, so I'll give this a go then.

It's more like calling Mobil 10W-30 a repackaged, target marketed and overpriced version of a combination of crude oil products as compared to the bulk tank of oil at your local dealer.

Will be interested to see the results of your FT Blanc experiment.

Online Big Monk

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Re: Brewtan Experiment Writeup
« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2017, 05:59:04 AM »
Overpriced is a relative term. Is $9.50 for enough BTB for 20+ batches (assuming 5 gal batches) overpriced?


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Offline majorvices

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Re: Brewtan Experiment Writeup
« Reply #65 on: April 22, 2017, 06:02:26 AM »
I will say this, having used Brewtan B on a hundred batches or so: the dosage is about 8 grams per bbl in the mash and 5 gms per bbl in the boil. So it may seem like it is "over priced" but the dosage rate is low so when buying in bulk it doesn't seem nearly as expensive.

Also, the one thing the BTB may do that some of the wine tanins may not is dissolve incredibly easy, which may allow it to work far more effectively.

Again, I've used the stuff for a hundred batches or more and the last time I went to buy it I thought "damn this stuff is expensive*, does it really do anything?" Then I have tried a few 4-6 month old bottled beers that, while having some o2 damage were still drinkable and I think it "may" have some benefits down the road. But if any of you are thinking this is a "magic powder" that is going to suddenly cause your beer to turn up a notch you are barking up the wrong tree.

*I believe it is about $700 for about 25 lbs
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 06:05:10 AM by majorvices »

Offline lupulus

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Re: Brewtan Experiment Writeup
« Reply #66 on: April 22, 2017, 07:40:48 AM »
A few comments if I may.
First, thanks to the experimenters for taking time to do the testing.
I have using Brewtan B for about 30 batches. Unfortunately in combination with AA and SMB/PMB. It does not hurt. Do not have enough evidence to say it is better.

@Brewtan - Gallotannins (only commenting if it was not mentioned already)
- Gallotannins can be accurately named radical scavengers; and given that if oxygen were to oxidize it would be through free radicals, oxygen scavenger seems ok. There is quite a bit of research on polyphenols as antioxidants, and many of these experiments (not in beer) used tannins as the polyphenol.
- There is not much research on Gallotannins in the mash and taste. Aerts, who has done a few experiments on tannins is the only one I recall, and the results were positive. The postulated mechanism was the antioxidant effect.

@Use of Brewtan
- During the podcast, JF stated that it was to be added 15 min before the end of the boil. The Website states 5-0 min before the end, and 5-0 min is also what has been done in research papers; so I will appreciate if Denny, Joe can provide the rationale/ references for the recommendation in the podcast.
I have been using it 3 min before the end of the boil as recommended in the literature.

@Benefits of Brewtan
- My beer was clear before Brewtan, so I see no effect of Brewtan on clarity.

@Podcast
The podcast came across to me as very positive to Brewtan despite the negative results of the experiment. Yes, confirmation bias was mentioned but there was more focus on the positive anecdotal evidence than on the mixed results. 
It is your podcast, so the editorial angle is certainly your decision how to present a topic. From previous podcasts, it has been my impression that science / data carried more weight than anecdotal evidence; it was not the case this time.
Nonetheless, D&D you are very entertaining and do a great job of presenting information. Thanks for taking the time.
Cheers  ;)

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Offline denny

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Re: Brewtan Experiment Writeup
« Reply #67 on: April 22, 2017, 07:58:53 AM »
We revisit the experiment on the episode coming out Wed. including our comments on the original episode.
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Offline BrewBama

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Brewtan Experiment Writeup
« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2017, 08:12:52 AM »
We revisit the experiment on the episode coming out Wed. including our comments on the original episode.

So... you won't brew without it now?

Oops, I know how literal this can get so let me re-phrase: you found benefit to the point that you will continue to use it? Benefit exceeds cost?

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« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 08:16:21 AM by BrewBama »
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Offline denny

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Re: Brewtan Experiment Writeup
« Reply #69 on: April 22, 2017, 09:01:01 AM »
We revisit the experiment on the episode coming out Wed. including our comments on the original episode.

So... you won't brew without it now?

Oops, I know how literal this can get so let me re-phrase: you found benefit to the point that you will continue to use it? Benefit exceeds cost?

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Yeah, pretty much so.  I'm personally so convinced of it's value that I use it in every batch.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline MaltMaker

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Re: Brewtan Experiment Writeup
« Reply #70 on: April 22, 2017, 09:02:03 AM »
Also, the one thing the BTB may do that some of the wine tanins may not is dissolve incredibly easy, which may allow it to work far more effectively.

The hydrolizable gallotannins (gall nut, tara pod, etc...) should readily dissolve in water, though some classes of tannins won't break down with water which would make them unsuitable for use in the mash.

Offline lupulus

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Re: Brewtan Experiment Writeup
« Reply #71 on: April 23, 2017, 08:57:36 AM »

Yeah, pretty much so.  I'm personally so convinced of it's value that I use it in every batch.
[/quote]

So, if you were to summarize your experience:
Does it help during the mash? If so, how?
Does it help during the boil? If so, how?

A few minor questions...
You mentioned clarity and smoothness, feel free to correct me if I misheard you. @clarity: So, your beers were not clear before BTB? Were you using Whirlfloc or similar).
@smoothness - if you were to use the Meilgaard flavor wheel, does it fit somewhere there?

Thanks in advance.
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Offline denny

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Re: Brewtan Experiment Writeup
« Reply #72 on: April 23, 2017, 09:26:47 AM »

Yeah, pretty much so.  I'm personally so convinced of it's value that I use it in every batch.

So, if you were to summarize your experience:
Does it help during the mash? If so, how?
Does it help during the boil? If so, how?

A few minor questions...
You mentioned clarity and smoothness, feel free to correct me if I misheard you. @clarity: So, your beers were not clear before BTB? Were you using Whirlfloc or similar).
@smoothness - if you were to use the Meilgaard flavor wheel, does it fit somewhere there?

Thanks in advance.
[/quote]

I use it in both mash and boil so I really can't separate the characteristics. Yes, my beers ended up clear before Brewtan.  Now they are clearer faster.  I also use Whirlfloc and continue to use it in conjunction with Brewtan.  Haven't done the flavor wheel and not interested in doing it.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline lupulus

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Re: Brewtan Experiment Writeup
« Reply #73 on: April 23, 2017, 09:35:27 AM »
Thanks.  May be you found IT. Cheers.

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