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Author Topic: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering  (Read 681 times)

Offline John M

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Re: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2024, 03:31:41 pm »
I ferment under pressure and/or spund, then cold crash and hit the fermenter with 10-12 psi of carbonation, so no suck back issues.  After a week or so, I push from the fermenter by way of floating dip tube under CO2 to the serving keg and lager for as long as it takes for that keg to come on line.  By then my beer is crystal clear after the first pint or so.
So you're saying you cold crash a "sealed" fermenter with positive Co2 pressure?
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2024, 04:10:08 pm »
Precisely - it prevents an implosion of the fermenter as the temperature drops.
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Offline John M

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Re: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2024, 04:23:51 pm »
That's a good idea, thanks.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2024, 05:51:43 pm »
I ferment under pressure and/or spund, then cold crash and hit the fermenter with 10-12 psi of carbonation, so no suck back issues.  After a week or so, I push from the fermenter by way of floating dip tube under CO2 to the serving keg and lager for as long as it takes for that keg to come on line.  By then my beer is crystal clear after the first pint or so.
So you're saying you cold crash a "sealed" fermenter with positive Co2 pressure?

Yeah, keep O2 out, carbonate the beer, etc.
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Offline MNWayne

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Re: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2024, 08:42:58 am »
I put the spunding valve on at about 75% attenuation so I can have positive pressure when I cool crash.
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Offline HopDen

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Re: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2024, 04:08:08 am »
John Palmer recently posed an experiment to the gentleman who does the brulosophy channel. John Palmer believes that you get better head retention by slowly dropping the crash temp instead of giving the yeast a thermal shock overload by setting the crash temp all at once. I believe it was 3 Celsius per 12/hrs. day until you reach crash temp. There is a video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sErHEhkF1M0

Offline denny

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Re: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2024, 08:01:06 am »
John Palmer recently posed an experiment to the gentleman who does the brulosophy channel. John Palmer believes that you get better head retention by slowly dropping the crash temp instead of giving the yeast a thermal shock overload by setting the crash temp all at once. I believe it was 3 Celsius per 12/hrs. day until you reach crash temp. There is a video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sErHEhkF1M0

John and I discussed this a few years ago, so I started trying it. I found no difference.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2024, 08:09:01 am »
The hypothesis was that yeast cast off certain things if subjected to a quick temperature drop, but less so if it is gradual.  I don't have the equipment to crash it as fast as a glycol chiller might drop it, so I just dial down the freezer and let it work out the drop on its own...it takes a day or so to get it down to 32-34F (5 gallon batch from fermentation temperature to just above freezing) and that seems to work fine for me.
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Offline goose

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Re: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2024, 08:43:29 am »
I don't have a problem with suck back.  Once the beer is finished, I do a D rest in the fermenter (if needed, normally it doesn't) and then do a closed transfer to a CO2 purged keg.  I then cold crash while having CO2 pressure on the keg.  If I have to add gelatin to clear the beer, I keep a slight positive pressure on the keg when I open the lid to add the gelatin.  This helps minimize O2 pickup in the keg and prevents suck back when I open the keg.  It is a simple solution and works well for me.
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Offline John M

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Re: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2024, 08:58:46 am »
I don't have a problem with suck back.  Once the beer is finished, I do a D rest in the fermenter (if needed, normally it doesn't) and then do a closed transfer to a CO2 purged keg.  I then cold crash while having CO2 pressure on the keg.  If I have to add gelatin to clear the beer, I keep a slight positive pressure on the keg when I open the lid to add the gelatin.  This helps minimize O2 pickup in the keg and prevents suck back when I open the keg.  It is a simple solution and works well for me.
Good answer to my question, thanks! That was what I was getting at- if the beer is going to cold crash in the keg anyway, why do it in the fermenter too? I guess you're putting slightly less sediment in the keg, but I would think the amount would be miniscule.

How about adding gelatin to the beer once it's carbonated? Does it work the same? Any drawbacks?
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Offline goose

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Re: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2024, 09:55:20 am »
I usually add it (when I do) to the keg before it gets fully carbonated.  I just add a few pounds of CO2 to prevent oxygen ingress crash and add the gelatin.  Have never done it if the beer is fully carbonated as I fear it may foam because of the differences in temperature between the two liquids

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« Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 09:57:50 am by goose »
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Offline denny

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Re: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2024, 10:12:29 am »
The hypothesis was that yeast cast off certain things if subjected to a quick temperature drop, but less so if it is gradual.  I don't have the equipment to crash it as fast as a glycol chiller might drop it, so I just dial down the freezer and let it work out the drop on its own...it takes a day or so to get it down to 32-34F (5 gallon batch from fermentation temperature to just above freezing) and that seems to work fine for me.

The "certain things" are lipids
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Offline Richard

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Re: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2024, 11:48:30 am »
Cooling too rapidly may also cause the yeast to express heat shock proteins. Those will not affect the current beer, but if  you harvest the yeast and use it again the new batch will be affected.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Cold-Crashing Lagers before Kegging for Cold Lagering
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2024, 12:53:14 pm »
Cooling too rapidly may also cause the yeast to express heat shock proteins. Those will not affect the current beer, but if  you harvest the yeast and use it again the new batch will be affected.

The hypothesis was that yeast cast off certain things if subjected to a quick temperature drop, but less so if it is gradual.  I don't have the equipment to crash it as fast as a glycol chiller might drop it, so I just dial down the freezer and let it work out the drop on its own...it takes a day or so to get it down to 32-34F (5 gallon batch from fermentation temperature to just above freezing) and that seems to work fine for me.

The "certain things" are lipids

You guys know well enough, so thanks for the clarification - I didn't want to go back through the segment for John's specific descriptors - at one point I think he also mentioned "wax" or "wax-like substances", too, but maybe that was just a more descriptive form for lipids.  In any event - agreed on your points and maybe the worst effects are downstream in later batches of repitched yeast and not so much on the initial cold crashed batch.
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