[HoosierBrew]

Ken - also, did you lower with lactic? If so, any flavor impact? I was debating using phosphoric to be safe.

Pretty sure it was 3- 4ml lactic- no issues at less than .5ml per lb. grist.

I must've micalc'd. I calculated ~ 8 ml for 5 gals. I did see the .5ml limit. Better recheck my figures. Anyway, thanks !

Don't have access right now- but just put salts into mash water to get my 5.4-5.5ph then lactic in kettle.


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Cool. Thanks again.

[Wort-H.O.G.]

Yeah no problem. I haven't found using brunwater to be able to figure out adding acid directly to kettle works. For mash...no problem. So when I want to keep lactic to minimal, I throw all salts on mash strike water .then use 1ml at time in kettle.


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[Wort-H.O.G.]

ok accessed my notes. i put 2ml in sparge water, and then 2ml in kettle. mash PH was 5.4, and final kettle PH was 5.15.

[klickitat jim]

Yeah no problem. I haven't found using brunwater to be able to figure out adding acid directly to kettle works. For mash...no problem. So when I want to keep lactic to minimal, I throw all salts on mash strike water .then use 1ml at time in kettle.


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So far I have had good luck using the average of Kai's figure for adjusting with lactic 88% at .175ml per pound of grain bill per .1 of ph drop needed. So in a ten pound grain bill that needs to be dropped from 5.5 to 5, it would be 10x.175=1.75x5=8.75ml  if you stick with .5ml per pound max thats 5ml obviously, so you could start by trying 5ml and see where it gets you. Then decide if that's close enough. Or switch to sulphoric 10% which requires about 1.75 per pound grain bill...

[Wort-H.O.G.]

Yeah no problem. I haven't found using brunwater to be able to figure out adding acid directly to kettle works. For mash...no problem. So when I want to keep lactic to minimal, I throw all salts on mash strike water .then use 1ml at time in kettle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So far I have had good luck using the average of Kai's figure for adjusting with lactic 88% at .175ml per pound of grain bill per .1 of ph drop needed. So in a ten pound grain bill that needs to be dropped from 5.5 to 5, it would be 10x.175=1.75x5=8.75ml  if you stick with .5ml per pound max thats 5ml obviously, so you could start by trying 5ml and see where it gets you. Then decide if that's close enough. Or switch to sulphoric 10% which requires about 1.75 per pound grain bill...

but i think this only works in the mash. in the kettle its not the same buffering that occurs with the grain.

[Wort-H.O.G.]

Had to reshoot in appropriate glass...I know I'm weird.



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[HoosierBrew]

Not weird, I'm the same - I'm a glass collector like you. That's a good point about not having the buffering capacity of the grain. Those mash calcs might not transfer very accurately to boil adjustment.

[Wort-H.O.G.]

Not weird, I'm the same - I'm a glass collector like you. That's a good point about not having the buffering capacity of the grain. Those mash calcs might not transfer very accurately to boil adjustment.

cool i have peeps like me out there!

yeah, calcs should only work based upon grist and buffering capactiy, salts, and water. once its just wort, its all together different.

[klickitat jim]

Yeah no problem. I haven't found using brunwater to be able to figure out adding acid directly to kettle works. For mash...no problem. So when I want to keep lactic to minimal, I throw all salts on mash strike water .then use 1ml at time in kettle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So far I have had good luck using the average of Kai's figure for adjusting with lactic 88% at .175ml per pound of grain bill per .1 of ph drop needed. So in a ten pound grain bill that needs to be dropped from 5.5 to 5, it would be 10x.175=1.75x5=8.75ml  if you stick with .5ml per pound max thats 5ml obviously, so you could start by trying 5ml and see where it gets you. Then decide if that's close enough. Or switch to sulphoric 10% which requires about 1.75 per pound grain bill...

but i think this only works in the mash. in the kettle its not the same buffering that occurs with the grain.

Please dont tell my wort that... lol. Ive done it all the way out to finished beer. It works. I was amazed at first but when you think about it, its about whats in the wort not the physical grain itself. The buffering we are working with is in the liquid.

[Wort-H.O.G.]

Yeah no problem. I haven't found using brunwater to be able to figure out adding acid directly to kettle works. For mash...no problem. So when I want to keep lactic to minimal, I throw all salts on mash strike water .then use 1ml at time in kettle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So far I have had good luck using the average of Kai's figure for adjusting with lactic 88% at .175ml per pound of grain bill per .1 of ph drop needed. So in a ten pound grain bill that needs to be dropped from 5.5 to 5, it would be 10x.175=1.75x5=8.75ml  if you stick with .5ml per pound max thats 5ml obviously, so you could start by trying 5ml and see where it gets you. Then decide if that's close enough. Or switch to sulphoric 10% which requires about 1.75 per pound grain bill...

but i think this only works in the mash. in the kettle its not the same buffering that occurs with the grain.

Please dont tell my wort that... lol. Ive done it all the way out to finished beer. It works. I was amazed at first but when you think about it, its about whats in the wort not the physical grain itself. The buffering we are working with is in the liquid.

So I'm going to say no, it's not the same. I haven't been able to replicate  predicted ph drop in bru'nwater for mash vs.whats happening in wort. It's taking less latic to drop wort ph vs ph in mash.


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[klickitat jim]

Yeah no problem. I haven't found using brunwater to be able to figure out adding acid directly to kettle works. For mash...no problem. So when I want to keep lactic to minimal, I throw all salts on mash strike water .then use 1ml at time in kettle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So far I have had good luck using the average of Kai's figure for adjusting with lactic 88% at .175ml per pound of grain bill per .1 of ph drop needed. So in a ten pound grain bill that needs to be dropped from 5.5 to 5, it would be 10x.175=1.75x5=8.75ml  if you stick with .5ml per pound max thats 5ml obviously, so you could start by trying 5ml and see where it gets you. Then decide if that's close enough. Or switch to sulphoric 10% which requires about 1.75 per pound grain bill...

but i think this only works in the mash. in the kettle its not the same buffering that occurs with the grain.

Please dont tell my wort that... lol. Ive done it all the way out to finished beer. It works. I was amazed at first but when you think about it, its about whats in the wort not the physical grain itself. The buffering we are working with is in the liquid.

So I'm going to say no, it's not the same. I haven't been able to replicate  predicted ph drop in bru'nwater for mash vs.whats happening in wort. It's taking less latic to drop wort ph vs ph in mash.


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Thats a good thing. Better than needing more.

My figures are just a middle average of Kai's figures. When I say .175 he is saying .125-.210ml per pound. He also isnt saying its a carry through necessarily. His figures are for the mash. I was trying to find figures that would work for final beer adjustment, and Kai's numbers are about all that's out there. I found that there must be some connection because they work for me as a ballpark estimate. As always, YMMV

Out of curiosity, how much grain was in your batch? And how much lactic did it take for how much ph drop?

[Wort-H.O.G.]

Yeah no problem. I haven't found using brunwater to be able to figure out adding acid directly to kettle works. For mash...no problem. So when I want to keep lactic to minimal, I throw all salts on mash strike water .then use 1ml at time in kettle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So far I have had good luck using the average of Kai's figure for adjusting with lactic 88% at .175ml per pound of grain bill per .1 of ph drop needed. So in a ten pound grain bill that needs to be dropped from 5.5 to 5, it would be 10x.175=1.75x5=8.75ml  if you stick with .5ml per pound max thats 5ml obviously, so you could start by trying 5ml and see where it gets you. Then decide if that's close enough. Or switch to sulphoric 10% which requires about 1.75 per pound grain bill...

but i think this only works in the mash. in the kettle its not the same buffering that occurs with the grain.

Please dont tell my wort that... lol. Ive done it all the way out to finished beer. It works. I was amazed at first but when you think about it, its about whats in the wort not the physical grain itself. The buffering we are working with is in the liquid.

So I'm going to say no, it's not the same. I haven't been able to replicate  predicted ph drop in bru'nwater for mash vs.whats happening in wort. It's taking less latic to drop wort ph vs ph in mash.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thats a good thing. Better than needing more.

My figures are just a middle average of Kai's figures. When I say .175 he is saying .125-.210ml per pound. He also isnt saying its a carry through necessarily. His figures are for the mash. I was trying to find figures that would work for final beer adjustment, and Kai's numbers are about all that's out there. I found that there must be some connection because they work for me as a ballpark estimate. As always, YMMV

Out of curiosity, how much grain was in your batch? And how much lactic did it take for how much ph drop?

10.5#.  5.4 mash ph, 2ml lactic is sparge water, then 2ml in kettle to get 5.15ph


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[klickitat jim]

Interesting.  How are you mixing it into the kettel? I add my acid and hit the whirlpool pump for about 10 minutes while its coming up to boil, then take my sample.

[Wort-H.O.G.]

Adding as wort rolls preboil to near boil. Thoroughly mixed for sure. Same time I'm getting pre boil OG


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[klickitat jim]

Crazy. No clue how we could be seeing so much difference