Author Topic: Pasteurized vs: raw Honey  (Read 220 times)

Offline FMbb

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Pasteurized vs: raw Honey
« on: April 13, 2019, 03:40:13 PM »
I have done a simple american-style wheat using an extract kit recipe and 1lb of pasteurized honey late addition. It was simple enough and gave good results. I am getting ready to make another batch and would like to try a more floral honey. Someone recommended raw honeys such as Manduka honey, any thoughts on that?
Note it is a raw honey, so should I add it 5 mins before the end of the boil? but will this attenuate its floral aroma?

Offline KellerBrauer

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Re: Pasteurized vs: raw Honey
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2019, 04:26:32 PM »
I can’t comment on the type of honey you wish to use because I have never used it.  But I can say that adding to the end of the boil is very important.  In fact, if it were me, I would add it 10 minutes before the end.
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Offline kramerog

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Re: Pasteurized vs: raw Honey
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2019, 09:49:50 PM »
Not familiar with Manduka honey - all I see are yoga mats when I google Manduka - but I bet it is expensive.  I would add at the end of primary fermentation (no need to rack into another fermenter).  The trend in meadmaking is to do not heat the honey at all and to use minimal chemicals relying on very active yeast to beat out the bad guys. Honey is pretty safe in partbecause is creates its oxn peroxide in its normal concentrated form.  Plus by making beer first you already have alcohol.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Pasteurized vs: raw Honey
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2019, 11:12:50 PM »
Manduku honey is the new wonder food from NZ. It gets a lot of Buzz on some sites (pun intended). $22 for 8.8 oz at Costco. Pretty spendy in my book.
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Offline TeeDubb

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Re: Pasteurized vs: raw Honey
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2019, 06:47:27 AM »
I've added 1/2 - 1 Lb of honey to the boil and also just to fermenting wort with no issue. Some was store bought some may have been raw (farmer's market kind of honey). If there was a risk of something wouldn't it show up in the honey itself?  The stuff is shelf stable for like decades, just may crystallize over time. Perhaps the pH of the wort would take care of any risk.

Good question and it made me think. Interested if someone has a more scientific perspective.

Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Pasteurized vs: raw Honey
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2019, 11:41:05 AM »
I would add it towards the end of primary fermentation but I have no experience with that particular kind of honey.

To the question about honey shelf stability, my understanding is this: sugar concentrations are so high that spoilage bugs get sucked dry due to osmotic pressure, i.e. the sugar pulls all the water out of the cells and kills the bugs. 

That's what I've read, at least.  I don't have a current reference to point to though.

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Offline FMbb

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Re: Pasteurized vs: raw Honey
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2019, 07:31:00 PM »
Thanks Kramerog for the recommendation to add at the end of primary. But how do I prevent a clump of viscous honey to just drop to the bottom of my primary (a 7gal SS cone-bottom with a 5 gal batch). Do you think I have to be concerned with having enough mixing since the fermentation-related convection really slows down at end of primary? To lower viscosity, I am planning on warming up the honey in a warm water bath and mechanically stir the primary prior to the honey addition. Does that make sense?

Offline kramerog

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Re: Pasteurized vs: raw Honey
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2019, 04:30:10 PM »
Thanks Kramerog for the recommendation to add at the end of primary. But how do I prevent a clump of viscous honey to just drop to the bottom of my primary (a 7gal SS cone-bottom with a 5 gal batch). Do you think I have to be concerned with having enough mixing since the fermentation-related convection really slows down at end of primary? To lower viscosity, I am planning on warming up the honey in a warm water bath and mechanically stir the primary prior to the honey addition. Does that make sense?

You can pour it in and it will dissolve over a few days although it may be several days since you have a cone bottom.  A warm water bath is fine to get the honey pourable.  I'm unclear about the purpose of the mechanical stirring prior to the honey addition.

Offline joe_meadmaker

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Re: Pasteurized vs: raw Honey
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2019, 04:35:01 PM »
The honey is manuka.  It's supposed to be "healthier" because of high levels of methylglyoxal, which is the antibacterial component.  This honey is expensive and I would say a waste of money to use in a beer.  The extra "stuff" that manuka honey is supposed to give you won't change a thing about your beer.

When using honey in a beer, I try to follow the color.  For lighter beers I'll use a clover or orange blossom honey.  For darker beers I'll go with a wildflower or buckwheat (if that's your thing, definitely taste some first ;)).  These are pretty easy to find and order online if you don't know of a local resource.  I've never had a problem adding raw honey without pasteurizing it.

How I normally add honey is to siphon off a small part of the batch.  I usually go with about 1/2 gallon.  Put it on the stove an heat it slightly.  This is just so the honey will dissolve easily.  Then slowly and gently stir in the honey until it is all dissolved.  Cool down the beer and then add it back to the batch.  This can also be done with a little water if you're more comfortable with that.  You can then give the whole batch a couple slow stirs to make sure things are spread around.  Keep in mind that the honey is very fermentable, so your fermentation will pick back up again for a little bit.

Offline FMbb

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Re: Pasteurized vs: raw Honey
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2019, 10:12:40 PM »
Thanks Joe. I did not know about the methylglyoxal enzyme. I looked it up, its boiling point is 162F, so obviously pasteurizing Manuka would be a total waste. Based on comments from others, I actually got some Orange Blossom honey so your suggestion is perfect timing. Also appreciate your addition suggestions.

Offline Wilbur

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Re: Pasteurized vs: raw Honey
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2019, 03:27:10 PM »
I would add it towards the end of primary fermentation but I have no experience with that particular kind of honey.

To the question about honey shelf stability, my understanding is this: sugar concentrations are so high that spoilage bugs get sucked dry due to osmotic pressure, i.e. the sugar pulls all the water out of the cells and kills the bugs. 

That's what I've read, at least.  I don't have a current reference to point to though.

Paul

You are correct-beekeepers try to harvest honey when the moisture content is under 17.8, or preferably under 20%. The high concentration of sugar, pH (3.26-4.8), possibly whatever bees have going on in their gut keep it from spoiling.

I wouldn't spend extra money on raw honey if you're going to throw it in the boil, or even at flameout.  You're basically pasteurizing it at those temperatures. Pasteurization temps & times depend on what you're trying to kill, but at 212F it's around a minute for a 6 sigma for certain organisms. If you want to do it warm, I would do it under 140 F.