Author Topic: This has gone far enough!  (Read 3297 times)

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #105 on: July 11, 2019, 03:17:08 PM »
Here is my first post on this thread.  I obviously have some catching up to do, and not certain if I will have time to stay on here presently (as I am yes at work and yes kind of busy, almost sorry I dropped by).

Regarding the Bamforth thing, I'm happy to see that he shows no fear in expressing his opinion, which of course is HIS OPINION and isn't anything anywhere close to approaching shoving anything down anyone's throat, nowhere near the same manner in which certain other topics have been shoved down.  But anywho.

EDIT: And make no mistake... this forum, and most if not all other forums, are on their deathbed, even if maybe for no better reason than the old farts are dying off while everyone else is too busy texting their acquaintances and watching videos of cats on YouTube.  It's almost time for all the rest of us to move on and do the same -- lose interest due to such terribly low traffic, conform to the idiocy, then die.

EDIT2: The other trouble with the inevitable low traffic that is happening (not just here but everywhere except for Facebook) is that the only folks who seem to want to stick around on forums like this one are either A) Noobs, or B) the ones with the strongest and most vocal opinions.  And inevitably, the B folks will quickly scare away all the A.  There will always be noobs but they'll never want to stick around as they can't grasp all the concepts and arguments, and certainly don't want to put up with our sh1t.

I consider myself a realist.  Not a pessimist.  Realist.  This is reality.

But I digress, sorry.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 03:58:39 PM by dmtaylor »
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Offline Visor

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #106 on: July 11, 2019, 04:39:34 PM »
   The "problems" with this forum are reflective of the problems with the world, not the east of which is that so many people any more have become ridiculously thin skinned. When you have a forum such as this devoted to a subject that as many people are as passionate about as BEER, there will be times unfortunately that heated discussions will degrade to personal fights, human nature being what it is. The point at which a disagreement becomes a fight and thus justifies intervention from a moderator is of course very subjective, but I suspect that long before that definite red line is crossed, a large number of folks will already have seen enough and pulled the plug on the thread, if not the whole forum.
   Be as passionate as you like, but be respectful, try to be polite, and for Pete's sake stop being so damn hypersensitive - and if you do get your feeling hurt, act like an adult and heal up and hide over!
   
I spent most of my money on beer, tools and guns, the rest I foolishly squandered on stupid stuff!

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #107 on: July 11, 2019, 04:53:22 PM »


Stupid generic label to entice millennials?
Check
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You've got one thing right, the Germans haven't restyled a car or a logo in decades... Centuries... Ever?

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Actually they pretty much invented the idea of design, and redesign... see Bauhaus.  And Spiegelau/Riedel is largely responsible for the increasingly absurd array of new glassware designs for various styles of beer.  But redesigning what's in the glass has never been seen as serving a useful purpose it seems.  Nonetheless trends and fashions are forces in German beer drinking, especially generationally, just as anywhere else.   Like when the utterly obscure Bavarian Hefeweizen exploded onto the scene in the 80s, when every student with Einstürzende Neubauten on their Walkman had to have one, with a lemon slice, in the newly anointed vase shaped glass.  The German counterpart to the contemporaneous collegiate American innovation of a Corona with a lime wedge.  Now both seem old hat.

Style and design make me think of the Italians. More understated style and design with good engineering makes me think Germans.

I think the glass making companies have had a hard time of it lately, with global competition. If you've been N-S along the Czech border in Niederbayern you know that the towns look nowhere as prosperous as the rest of Bavaria. Closed glass factories, shabby houses, even closed local breweries.

Spiegelau, Reidel, Nachmann are all making new glass styles, or going after the high end beer, wine, mixed drink crowd. That is what I concluded looking around at the products for sale at the Corning Glass Museum gift shop on the way back from HomebrewCon. Outstanding museum, BTW.
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Offline Megary

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #108 on: July 12, 2019, 12:35:12 AM »
Here is my first post on this thread.  I obviously have some catching up to do, and not certain if I will have time to stay on here presently (as I am yes at work and yes kind of busy, almost sorry I dropped by).

Regarding the Bamforth thing, I'm happy to see that he shows no fear in expressing his opinion, which of course is HIS OPINION and isn't anything anywhere close to approaching shoving anything down anyone's throat, nowhere near the same manner in which certain other topics have been shoved down.  But anywho.

EDIT: And make no mistake... this forum, and most if not all other forums, are on their deathbed, even if maybe for no better reason than the old farts are dying off while everyone else is too busy texting their acquaintances and watching videos of cats on YouTube.  It's almost time for all the rest of us to move on and do the same -- lose interest due to such terribly low traffic, conform to the idiocy, then die.

EDIT2: The other trouble with the inevitable low traffic that is happening (not just here but everywhere except for Facebook) is that the only folks who seem to want to stick around on forums like this one are either A) Noobs, or B) the ones with the strongest and most vocal opinions.  And inevitably, the B folks will quickly scare away all the A.  There will always be noobs but they'll never want to stick around as they can't grasp all the concepts and arguments, and certainly don't want to put up with our sh1t.

I consider myself a realist.  Not a pessimist.  Realist.  This is reality.

But I digress, sorry.

So I'll jump in where I don't belong because I haven't yet earned my wings.  Or maybe this is exactly where I belong because of that.

Bamforth...meh.  And your first Edit was highly entertaining.  Well done.

But I would have to take an exception to the whole Edit 2.  Consider me a flag waiving member of Group A, the Noobs.  Or another way to put it, the group with the most excitement and enthusiasm when it comes to digging into something new...something fun.  Ready to learn, ready to up my game.  To think that a few Get off my Lawn curmudgeons are going to scare me away is selling me short.  Maybe I'm an exception, but I doubt it.

Another point...yeah, about that Group B.  Maybe I have the benefit of a few too many winters, but I learned a long time ago that the ones with the strongest and most vocal opinions are often using that as a cover for some other shortcoming or insecurity.  So the louder someone shouts, regardless of how many [equations] and fancy symbols used for my benefit, the less I pay attention.  Yawn.

And frankly, with all due respect, I have found out in a few short months since returning to this hobby that there is so much misinformation in printed books (surprise) and floating around the internet (not a surprise) that it really is hard to believe anyone.  Especially when it comes to dry hopping.  :)  We can all get from grain (or LME) to glass however we like, however it is most enjoyable. Can I brew a better beer if I followed every suggestion every expert ever posted and reposted on these (and other) forums?  Um, no.  I can't.  Why?  Because I'd quit first.

This is a ridiculously cool hobby and I'm glad I found a way back to it that works for me. So I'm here for the duration (or at least until I can get rid of "Cellerman").


Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #109 on: July 12, 2019, 02:06:00 AM »
Here is my first post on this thread.  I obviously have some catching up to do, and not certain if I will have time to stay on here presently (as I am yes at work and yes kind of busy, almost sorry I dropped by).

Regarding the Bamforth thing, I'm happy to see that he shows no fear in expressing his opinion, which of course is HIS OPINION and isn't anything anywhere close to approaching shoving anything down anyone's throat, nowhere near the same manner in which certain other topics have been shoved down.  But anywho.

EDIT: And make no mistake... this forum, and most if not all other forums, are on their deathbed, even if maybe for no better reason than the old farts are dying off while everyone else is too busy texting their acquaintances and watching videos of cats on YouTube.  It's almost time for all the rest of us to move on and do the same -- lose interest due to such terribly low traffic, conform to the idiocy, then die.

EDIT2: The other trouble with the inevitable low traffic that is happening (not just here but everywhere except for Facebook) is that the only folks who seem to want to stick around on forums like this one are either A) Noobs, or B) the ones with the strongest and most vocal opinions.  And inevitably, the B folks will quickly scare away all the A.  There will always be noobs but they'll never want to stick around as they can't grasp all the concepts and arguments, and certainly don't want to put up with our sh1t.

I consider myself a realist.  Not a pessimist.  Realist.  This is reality.

But I digress, sorry.

So I'll jump in where I don't belong because I haven't yet earned my wings.  Or maybe this is exactly where I belong because of that.

Bamforth...meh.  And your first Edit was highly entertaining.  Well done.

But I would have to take an exception to the whole Edit 2.  Consider me a flag waiving member of Group A, the Noobs.  Or another way to put it, the group with the most excitement and enthusiasm when it comes to digging into something new...something fun.  Ready to learn, ready to up my game.  To think that a few Get off my Lawn curmudgeons are going to scare me away is selling me short.  Maybe I'm an exception, but I doubt it.

Another point...yeah, about that Group B.  Maybe I have the benefit of a few too many winters, but I learned a long time ago that the ones with the strongest and most vocal opinions are often using that as a cover for some other shortcoming or insecurity.  So the louder someone shouts, regardless of how many [equations] and fancy symbols used for my benefit, the less I pay attention.  Yawn.

And frankly, with all due respect, I have found out in a few short months since returning to this hobby that there is so much misinformation in printed books (surprise) and floating around the internet (not a surprise) that it really is hard to believe anyone.  Especially when it comes to dry hopping.  :)  We can all get from grain (or LME) to glass however we like, however it is most enjoyable. Can I brew a better beer if I followed every suggestion every expert ever posted and reposted on these (and other) forums?  Um, no.  I can't.  Why?  Because I'd quit first.

This is a ridiculously cool hobby and I'm glad I found a way back to it that works for me. So I'm here for the duration (or at least until I can get rid of "Cellerman").

Hang around, learn, have fun give good advice when you can.

I was a noob once. We all brewed our first beer.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Online Robert

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #110 on: July 12, 2019, 02:18:42 AM »
This forum does tend to run in cycles.  But don't go writing our obituary.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #111 on: July 12, 2019, 02:31:24 AM »
Tick tock.
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline Phil_M

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #112 on: July 12, 2019, 02:37:14 AM »
First off, let me second Derek's opinion that this is The Pub, and anything here needs to be taken in proper context. Furthermore if you're on this subforum, aren't working/about to drive, and don't have a beer in your hand...you're at least more likely to take things the wrong way.

Second:
EDIT2: The other trouble with the inevitable low traffic that is happening (not just here but everywhere except for Facebook) is that the only folks who seem to want to stick around on forums like this one are either A) Noobs, or B) the ones with the strongest and most vocal opinions.  And inevitably, the B folks will quickly scare away all the A.  There will always be noobs but they'll never want to stick around as they can't grasp all the concepts and arguments, and certainly don't want to put up with our sh1t.

I consider myself a realist.  Not a pessimist.  Realist.  This is reality.

But I digress, sorry.

I'm sorry, but this is an issue not just related to beer. I'm a Senior Engineering Technician, a team lead, and a Millennial (I'm 32, FWIW.) I started as an apprentice and worked me way up, and let me say that those in technical fields know: We're brutal to new folks.

It's not that we're assholes...(ok well maybe we are, but we don't intend to be)...it's just that if you don't fall in line with the laws of physics you can't work in a technical field. I've got issues hiring personnel because of this: Too few people are willing to "Tough it out and grasp all the concepts and arguments", as dmtaylor so eloquently put it.

Here's why that matters: An apprentice with an opinion generally isn't regarded as well as a higher level tech. It's OK to have a dissenting opinion...but the dissent of an apprentice doesn't carry the same weight as a full tech. (Whose opinion doesn't carry the same weight as a Junior Engineer, whose don't matter vs. a senior tech, and so on...)

Don't see this issue with engineers, because school gets them past the basics point.

And it's the same with beer. Don't believe me? Try convincing a run of the mill craft brewer with cloudy beer that his Pils isn't acceptable because it shouldn't include yeast particles. Someone who grasped the concepts wouldn't have done that unless he had to...the apprentice still thinks "But it's my interpretation of a Pils, so you're wrong."

I don't care about fruit beer, IPA, Lager, whatever. Just please at least TRY and do some study and make it well.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

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Offline Bilsch

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #113 on: July 12, 2019, 05:42:54 AM »
↑↑↑↑this↑↑↑↑

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #114 on: July 12, 2019, 12:50:51 PM »
Is the Forum dying? I don't know.

What I do know is that the AHA membership numbers are flat, after many years of double-digit growth. Craft Brewer are also seeing slower growth.

Homebrewing sees growth in tough economic times, this recovery has been long. Now there are breweries in every small town it seems, will people want to Homebrew in the next recession, when craft beer is just around the corner?



Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Online Robert

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #115 on: July 12, 2019, 01:19:46 PM »




And it's the same with beer. Don't believe me? Try convincing a run of the mill craft brewer with cloudy beer that his Pils isn't acceptable because it shouldn't include yeast particles. Someone who grasped the concepts wouldn't have done that unless he had to...the apprentice still thinks "But it's my interpretation of a Pils, so you're wrong."

I don't care about fruit beer, IPA, Lager, whatever. Just please at least TRY and do some study and make it well.

The great refuge of the mediocre brewer:  What I call the "Pee Wee Herman"  --  you know, sneer and say "I meant to do that."

Once, in the early days, it was, "This beer is so much better than the macro lager that's all you know, you're just incapable of recognizing it."

A little later it was, "It's Belgian."  (Then somebody found out what real Belgian beer was like, and that didn't work anymore.)

Now it's just the straight-up, fully-entitled, Pee Wee Herman.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline tommymorris

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #116 on: July 12, 2019, 05:47:09 PM »
I am planning a pickle flavored beer. Should I age the beer on bread butter or dill pickles?

The base beer will of course be a saison fermented with wild yeast collected from cucumbers grown in my neighbor’s yard.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #117 on: July 12, 2019, 06:23:44 PM »
I am planning a pickle flavored beer. Should I age the beer on bread butter or dill pickles?

The base beer will of course be a saison fermented with wild yeast collected from cucumbers grown in my neighbor’s yard.

I strongly encourage you to be sure to use Sorachi Ace hops (which taste strongly of dill).
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline tommymorris

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #118 on: July 12, 2019, 06:46:47 PM »
I am planning a pickle flavored beer. Should I age the beer on bread butter or dill pickles?

The base beer will of course be a saison fermented with wild yeast collected from cucumbers grown in my neighbor’s yard.

I strongly encourage you to be sure to use Sorachi Ace hops (which taste strongly of dill).
Good tip. Thanks!

Online Robert

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #119 on: July 12, 2019, 06:57:42 PM »


I am planning a pickle flavored beer. Should I age the beer on bread butter or dill pickles?

The base beer will of course be a saison fermented with wild yeast collected from cucumbers grown in my neighbor’s yard.

I strongly encourage you to be sure to use Sorachi Ace hops (which taste strongly of dill).
Good tip. Thanks!

If you really want to try this, you might look into Pickle from Urban Artifact in Cincinnati for ideas on how-to.   It's not aged on anything and contains no actual pickles.  It's a Gose, brewed with a $#!? ton of fresh cucumbers and a wad of fresh dill and I think coriander and other pickly stuff.  I've never tried it, and don't want to, just doesn't sound like my thing.  But everyone else says it smells and tastes exactly like a fresh pickle.  I love pickles, BTW.   Especially fresh, lactic, half-sours.  Which this beer probably resembles.  But I am a curmudgeon, and will continue to snack on pickles alongside my beer-flavored beer.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.