Author Topic: This has gone far enough!  (Read 5361 times)

Offline Phil_M

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #75 on: June 27, 2019, 02:07:18 PM »
Radom dirty glass filled to the brim with no head? Check

Crazy ingredients that shouldn’t be in beer? Check

Stupid generic label to entice millennials?
Check

The extract beer I wrote my blog post about?
Check


Even if you don't have a taste for German beer, still represents everything wrong with the average Craft brewery.

And I'm not trying to hate on fruit beers...just want them shelved differently from "regular" beer. It's be nice to have the regular beer in a easier to pick over area...
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

The Beerery

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #76 on: June 27, 2019, 04:33:17 PM »


Stupid generic label to entice millennials?
Check
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You've got one thing right, the Germans haven't restyled a car or a logo in decades... Centuries... Ever?

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It makes me sad when me, a homebrewer has nicer labels than them, a "professional" brewer. I have had my cans and labels for 2 years.... They have a peel and stick label on a generic can...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJDRe6G1P6c

« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 04:35:38 PM by The Beerery »

Offline boulderbrewer

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #77 on: June 27, 2019, 08:28:17 PM »
Even if you don't have a taste for German beer, still represents everything wrong with the average Craft brewery.

And I'm not trying to hate on fruit beers...just want them shelved differently from "regular" beer. It's be nice to have the regular beer in a easier to pick over area...

Small breweries have a hard enough time just to get a space on the shelf, that what you want would be next to impossible. Big beer sales and delivery people are always pulling crap on us by taking our shelf space or burying our beer. I'm just happy to have any shelf space.

2018 GABF Gold medal White Legs Jalapeno Wheat Tribute Brewing Co.   Eagle River WI Chili Beer

Offline Phil_M

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #78 on: June 27, 2019, 11:29:35 PM »
Even if you don't have a taste for German beer, still represents everything wrong with the average Craft brewery.

And I'm not trying to hate on fruit beers...just want them shelved differently from "regular" beer. It's be nice to have the regular beer in a easier to pick over area...

Small breweries have a hard enough time just to get a space on the shelf, that what you want would be next to impossible. Big beer sales and delivery people are always pulling crap on us by taking our shelf space or burying our beer. I'm just happy to have any shelf space.

It's not taking any more or less space, just re-arranging existing product...

And around here, s***ty local breweries have displaced some of the stars of craft brewing from shelves...I really miss Anchor Steam, and the old SN Porter...Anything from Saranac, etc.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline dzlater

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #79 on: June 30, 2019, 11:38:16 AM »
There is a local TV show about craft beer where they visit different local breweries.
They were interviewing a brewer who was talking about expanding into new markets.
The distributors don't want another IPA or pale ale, or what some would call "normal beer", so they are sort of forced to push the envelope on ingredients and style.
Just a thought.
Dan S. from NJ

Offline Robert

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2019, 04:41:51 PM »

The distributors don't want another IPA or pale ale, or what some would call "normal beer"

The distributors are beholden to/controlled by Big Beer.  One implication of the situation described in this oft quoted and still excellent article

https://www.goodbeerhunting.com/blog/2017/5/5/watch-the-hands-not-the-cards-the-magic-of-megabrew

is that Big Beer doesn't want these for good reason: 

They want to control or influence a sufficient segment of what is popularly perceived as definitive, quality "craft" so as to bring its perceived quality (indicated by price point) into relative parity with their core brands, so as to in turn enhance the perceived quality, and hence the actual brand equity, of those mass market brands.  They want to keep independent craft confined to increasingly narrow niches.  Of course they don't want more competition in "normal beer" (I'm just going to use this convenient shorthand you've provided, dzlater.)

It seems to me they are missing a huge opportunity.  While craft, in a very limited niche (or niches,) holds fast -- even growing in certain statistical manipulations like number of brands or dollar sales, but not in actual number of loyal consumers -- beer sales as a whole continue to decline, while wine and spirits and malternatives grow.  I believe this is because the potential growth market in beer is would-be consumers of "normal beer," but not being served, they turn to other adult beverages.   Big Beer doesn't care, they will just invest in those sectors.  (So too increasingly the likes of Boston/DFH.)  Note also that one of the first effects of consolidation of ownership internationally was the disappearance of most of the former imports which might have filled the middle ground between the ephemeral avant garde of craft and the gas station 30 pack.  Again, Big Beer just sees this as a case of well, we have a brand presence in that market, no need to keep shipping stuff across the ocean.

It seems once again that the 3 tier system, intended to protect the consumer from undue influence on the part of brewers, in fact now insulates the brewer from the inconvenient influence of consumer demand.

[EDIT for typo]
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 05:40:02 PM by Robert »
Rob Stein
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Offline Robert

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #81 on: July 01, 2019, 10:26:54 PM »
Somewhat relevant:

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/06/hazy-juicy-ipas.html

Standout quote:   "The more we normalize poorly made beer, hazy or not, the harder it is to go back."
Rob Stein
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Offline kgs

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #82 on: July 02, 2019, 05:15:50 AM »
This is not the first time glitter has come up as a line in the sand. In the September/October Zymurgy, an article chastised women who put glitter in their homebrew. I was so annoyed I wrote a response, which didn't get published. No worries, it may not have been such a great submission. But I wrote something I feel strongly about:

"Diversifying membership as a strategy means embracing new ideas, opinions, and even values. New homebrewers don't need to 'garner respect'  by avoiding ingredients they find fun or interesting or even, dare I say, 'girly.' On the contrary, rather than ordering new members to conform to the majority, we should respect and welcome newcomers for challenging what it means to make beer and be a homebrewer."

I don't have any strong interest in brewing with glitter -- except when I read that this is something I shouldn't do. Then, I want to put glitter in my brew AND sprinkle it on the beer labels. Note, there are some beer trends I am highly tired of -- I have reached the point where I do not want hazy anything! But let the people brew.
K.G. Schneider
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Offline Phil_M

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #83 on: July 02, 2019, 12:27:10 PM »

The distributors don't want another IPA or pale ale, or what some would call "normal beer"

The distributors are beholden to/controlled by Big Beer.  One implication of the situation described in this oft quoted and still excellent article

https://www.goodbeerhunting.com/blog/2017/5/5/watch-the-hands-not-the-cards-the-magic-of-megabrew

is that Big Beer doesn't want these for good reason: 

They want to control or influence a sufficient segment of what is popularly perceived as definitive, quality "craft" so as to bring its perceived quality (indicated by price point) into relative parity with their core brands, so as to in turn enhance the perceived quality, and hence the actual brand equity, of those mass market brands.  They want to keep independent craft confined to increasingly narrow niches.  Of course they don't want more competition in "normal beer" (I'm just going to use this convenient shorthand you've provided, dzlater.)

It seems to me they are missing a huge opportunity.  While craft, in a very limited niche (or niches,) holds fast -- even growing in certain statistical manipulations like number of brands or dollar sales, but not in actual number of loyal consumers -- beer sales as a whole continue to decline, while wine and spirits and malternatives grow.  I believe this is because the potential growth market in beer is would-be consumers of "normal beer," but not being served, they turn to other adult beverages.   Big Beer doesn't care, they will just invest in those sectors.  (So too increasingly the likes of Boston/DFH.)  Note also that one of the first effects of consolidation of ownership internationally was the disappearance of most of the former imports which might have filled the middle ground between the ephemeral avant garde of craft and the gas station 30 pack.  Again, Big Beer just sees this as a case of well, we have a brand presence in that market, no need to keep shipping stuff across the ocean.

It seems once again that the 3 tier system, intended to protect the consumer from undue influence on the part of brewers, in fact now insulates the brewer from the inconvenient influence of consumer demand.

[EDIT for typo]

Ironically, the best local distributor for Craft beer in my area is the local Bud one. Their rep for their craft brands (the distributor, not Inbev) seems to be the only one who can get us beer even remotely fresh.

Sadly, not a lot of craft brands seem to distribute through them.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline Slowbrew

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #84 on: July 02, 2019, 02:28:17 PM »
This is not the first time glitter has come up as a line in the sand. In the September/October Zymurgy, an article chastised women who put glitter in their homebrew. I was so annoyed I wrote a response, which didn't get published. No worries, it may not have been such a great submission. But I wrote something I feel strongly about:

"Diversifying membership as a strategy means embracing new ideas, opinions, and even values. New homebrewers don't need to 'garner respect'  by avoiding ingredients they find fun or interesting or even, dare I say, 'girly.' On the contrary, rather than ordering new members to conform to the majority, we should respect and welcome newcomers for challenging what it means to make beer and be a homebrewer."

I don't have any strong interest in brewing with glitter -- except when I read that this is something I shouldn't do. Then, I want to put glitter in my brew AND sprinkle it on the beer labels. Note, there are some beer trends I am highly tired of -- I have reached the point where I do not want hazy anything! But let the people brew.

Well stated and on the mark in my opinion.

On this forum we have had serious discussions on beers made with many unusual ingredients (Jolly Ranchers, Fruit Loops and Cocoa Puffs come to mind) and no one batted an eye.  Some people didn't think much of the ideas but no one railed about it "not being allowed".

IMHO - These discussions tend to fall under the mantra "Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew" and remind me that we can brew with whatever we want and evaluate the results without worrying what others think.  It's part of why I became a homebrewer. 

Let's leave the "No True Scotsman" arguments to other forums and just accept that while I don't want to use an ingredient, that doesn't make it a violation of some rule set I've not seen.  Be creative, share your discoveries (and failures) and keep brewing your own way.

Paul
Where the heck are we going?  And what's with this hand basket?

The Beerery

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #85 on: July 02, 2019, 03:57:30 PM »
I could give 2 s***s about any homebrewer ( hell even pro brewers) using any ingredient they want.  My beef is with poorly made beer.  There is way too much of it. Which in this day with all the science and technology is unacceptable.


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Offline Robert

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #86 on: July 02, 2019, 03:59:31 PM »
I could give 2 s***s about any homebrewer ( hell even pro brewers) using any ingredient they want.  My beef is with poorly made beer.  There is way too much of it. Which in this day with all the science and technology is unacceptable.


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My main point exactly.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

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The Beerery

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #87 on: July 03, 2019, 03:40:55 AM »
I could give 2 s***s about any homebrewer ( hell even pro brewers) using any ingredient they want.  My beef is with poorly made beer.  There is way too much of it. Which in this day with all the science and technology is unacceptable.


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My main point exactly.


Well then.  Amen. 


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Offline Big Monk

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #88 on: July 06, 2019, 03:25:44 AM »
I could give 2 s***s about any homebrewer ( hell even pro brewers) using any ingredient they want.  My beef is with poorly made beer.  There is way too much of it. Which in this day with all the science and technology is unacceptable.


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My main point exactly.


Well then.  Amen. 


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Indeed. Brew with toad sweat if you like so long as the beer is well made.
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Offline kgs

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #89 on: July 06, 2019, 04:04:53 PM »
I could give 2 s***s about any homebrewer ( hell even pro brewers) using any ingredient they want.  My beef is with poorly made beer.  There is way too much of it. Which in this day with all the science and technology is unacceptable.


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My main point exactly.


Well then.  Amen. 


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Indeed. Brew with toad sweat if you like so long as the beer is well made.

Then we are all in violent agreement, as the OP quoted a professor emeritus: "'I personally am not a fan of ridiculous brews incorporating materials and gimmicks that have no historical provenance in brewing,' said Charlie Bamforth, a distinguished professor emeritus in the food science and technology department of the University of California, Davis." The Forum consensus seems to be, it's all about the quality of the brew.
K.G. Schneider
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