Author Topic: This has gone far enough!  (Read 3290 times)

Offline Bilsch

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2019, 09:05:15 PM »
I couldn't agree more with The Beerery's take on the current state of beer in this country.
Well said.

Offline Wilbur

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2019, 10:03:01 PM »
Regarding glitter-do you look down at a birthday cake with red frosting? Does that prevent you from enjoying that slice of cake? Probably not.

I don't think styles and quality correlate at all. People that make bad hazy beers are going to make bad pilsners. I tend to think that bad brewers are more likely to chase trends, and thus you have more bad West Coast IPAs, pastry stouts, sour beers, NEIPA, whatever. If we stuck with Rheinheitsgebot, we'd be missing out on a world of flavor, and still drinking the same quality beer.

Offline Robert

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2019, 10:49:58 PM »


I tend to think that bad brewers are more likely to chase trends.... If we stuck with Rheinheitsgebot, we'd be missing out on a world of flavor, and still drinking the same quality beer.

I think that the logical progression here is that incompetent brewers, if they were obliged to make transparent (no pun intended, but hey it works) beers, would not be in business very long.  But the quality of the beer doesn't even seem to matter anymore, it's seemingly just about chasing trends, for both the undiscriminating, name checking consumers and the undisciplined brewers they enable.  If "craft beer" is really about lifestyle, demographic, rather than product, then it is no wonder that it must have an ultimate limit on its growth.  And if beer as a whole is losing sales to wine and spirits, it isn't a stretch to deduce that this is because there is really no middle ground, in the beer category as defined by beverage analysts, between a niche, lifestyle accessory, and gas station 30 packs (where, ironically, quality is paramount, as its drinkers will surely recognize and object to defects, aka beerlike flavor and aroma.)  Those looking for a serious, adult beverage must look elsewhere.
Rob Stein
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Offline Bilsch

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2019, 10:57:32 PM »
Regarding glitter-do you look down at a birthday cake with red frosting? Does that prevent you from enjoying that slice of cake? Probably not.

I don't think styles and quality correlate at all. People that make bad hazy beers are going to make bad pilsners. I tend to think that bad brewers are more likely to chase trends, and thus you have more bad West Coast IPAs, pastry stouts, sour beers, NEIPA, whatever. If we stuck with Rheinheitsgebot, we'd be missing out on a world of flavor, and still drinking the same quality beer.

Yes but.. at least we'd be drinking quality beer.

Offline dannyjed

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2019, 11:44:13 PM »
Fads and gimmicks never last long. I would never have imagined that murky, pastry, glitter, etc. beers would be popular. It used to bother me that when new homebrewers would start out making beers with all kinds of weird ingredients instead of learning how to make a solid pale ale. I use the jazz analogy, great jazz musicians must have a solid foundation of scales and music theory before they can push the boundaries of a new direction. Too many new brewers and breweries don’t have a solid foundation in ingredients, process, and packaging before they try to make the latest, new craze. It really doesn’t bother me much anymore and I’ll let them learn the hard way. If they want my honest opinion I’ll give it to them. All things go through cycles and just think in a few years maybe well made beer that tastes like beer will be all the rave.


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Offline Joe T

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2019, 01:17:22 AM »
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/11/business/salad-frosting-trnd/index.html
This is where our society is at right now. Deal with it. You can still kick people off your lawn.

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Offline Robert

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2019, 01:23:41 AM »
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/11/business/salad-frosting-trnd/index.html
This is where our society is at right now. Deal with it. You can still kick people off your lawn.

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And this has got to have something to do with brewers who got "participation trophies" as kids.     
Rob Stein
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Offline Joe T

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2019, 01:34:57 AM »
I got a participation trophy when I was 10(I'm 46 now). I can vividly remember thinking how it meant nothing and it was stupid.

Offline Robert

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2019, 01:58:34 AM »
I got a participation trophy when I was 10(I'm 46 now). I can vividly remember thinking how it meant nothing and it was stupid.
The updated version of walking 10 miles to school carrying water from the well barefoot in the snow uphill both ways:  we didn't even get a damn ice cream if we lost the game!

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Offline Phil_M

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2019, 12:55:39 PM »
BTW Bryan, you probably don't read Ron Pattinson's blog (Shut up about Barclay Perkins,) but his increasing frustration with trying to find a drinkable, recognizable beer while he is in this country, ironically usually on invitation of craft brewers who want to promote education about traditional beer, would be amusing if it weren't actually quite worrying.  Think he'll blow a gasket soon. Or just go on straight whisk(e)y.

This has an interesting side effect - it pushes people Macro. I'll admit I've been walking past the craft beer straight to the domestic area of the local beer cave...and picking up Miller High Life more often than I ever thought I would. Heineken is another staple, when fresh.

There's just no "normal" beer craft beer available anymore, not fresh anyway. Yuengling and Sam Adams are it.

I know I'm not alone in this sentiment either. The high alcohol content and lack of good simple beers has frustrated several folks I know, most of whom would rather buy craft but instead buy Macro because there isn't a craft option that fits what they're looking for.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

And don't buy stale beer.

Offline ethinson

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2019, 09:19:47 PM »
BTW Bryan, you probably don't read Ron Pattinson's blog (Shut up about Barclay Perkins,) but his increasing frustration with trying to find a drinkable, recognizable beer while he is in this country, ironically usually on invitation of craft brewers who want to promote education about traditional beer, would be amusing if it weren't actually quite worrying.  Think he'll blow a gasket soon. Or just go on straight whisk(e)y.

This has an interesting side effect - it pushes people Macro. I'll admit I've been walking past the craft beer straight to the domestic area of the local beer cave...and picking up Miller High Life more often than I ever thought I would. Heineken is another staple, when fresh.

There's just no "normal" beer craft beer available anymore, not fresh anyway. Yuengling and Sam Adams are it.

I know I'm not alone in this sentiment either. The high alcohol content and lack of good simple beers has frustrated several folks I know, most of whom would rather buy craft but instead buy Macro because there isn't a craft option that fits what they're looking for.

I think over time it will fade, just like dannyjed said above.  Beer flavored beer is starting to make a comeback here in the PacNW.  Craft lagers are all the rage, everyone is releasing a new pilsner or a helles or even craft versions of american adjunct lager.  Some probably motivated to make a clean, solid, low alcohol beer, some to directly fight against macro beer. Deschutes new "Dashootz" lager fits this bill. 99 calories, 4.0%, going right after the Mich Ultra crowd. It's priced similar to domestic lagers and it's sold in single cans (16 or 24) and 6-packs. Sierra Nevada's All Day IPA kinda fits this mold too.. low ABV "sessionable" sold in single cans for C-store grabbing.

I don't mind a stout with chocolate or a stout with coffee (or recently, pale ales with coffee) but I do draw the line at throwing sheet cakes into the tun.. that's ridiculous.
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Offline Robert

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2019, 01:55:06 AM »


Beer flavored beer is starting to make a comeback here in the PacNW.  Craft lagers are all the rage....

Hey, "beer flavored beer" is my catch phrase!  Unfortunately, virtually all of the "craft lagers" I've encountered so far have done exactly what has been suggested above would happen:  laid bare the brewers' profound lack of mastery of the most fundamental aspects of their trade, and their lack of sound stylistic judgment.  And yet they shamelessly release them.  There's still an unserved market.
Rob Stein
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Offline Bilsch

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2019, 02:24:24 AM »


Beer flavored beer is starting to make a comeback here in the PacNW.  Craft lagers are all the rage....

Hey, "beer flavored beer" is my catch phrase!  Unfortunately, virtually all of the "craft lagers" I've encountered so far have done exactly what has been suggested above would happen:  laid bare the brewers' profound lack of mastery of the most fundamental aspects of their trade, and their lack of sound stylistic judgment.  And yet they shamelessly release them.  There's still an unserved market.

Same experience here. Brewers with the least amount of skill typically don't fare well making lighter styles.

Online BrewBama

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This has gone far enough!
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2019, 02:41:50 AM »
Supply and Demand:  if there is a customer that’s willing to fund the bizarre flavors the brewer’s who bring them to market will continue. Offering a product without a customer base doesn’t last long in a market based economy. With so much good beer available today, bad beer won’t last long.

The breweries around here run booming businesses. I have never been to one for lunch or dinner without a nice healthy crowd of paying customers. I have no doubt it’s a direct connection to the mere coincidence that there are never guacamole, buffalo chicken dip, glitter, birthday cake, Twinkie, or other bizarro offerings on tap. Fruit, sugars, barrel aged, etc laced base beers  are offered I am sure because they sell well enough to keep them in production.

It’s all dollars and sense. 


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« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 02:46:31 AM by BrewBama »
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Offline Robert

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Re: This has gone far enough!
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2019, 02:42:46 AM »


Beer flavored beer is starting to make a comeback here in the PacNW.  Craft lagers are all the rage....

Hey, "beer flavored beer" is my catch phrase!  Unfortunately, virtually all of the "craft lagers" I've encountered so far have done exactly what has been suggested above would happen:  laid bare the brewers' profound lack of mastery of the most fundamental aspects of their trade, and their lack of sound stylistic judgment.  And yet they shamelessly release them.  There's still an unserved market.

Same experience here. Brewers with the least amount of skill typically don't fare well making lighter styles.
It's funny, for as long as I can remember, it's been a trope amongst craft brewers to say, condescendingly, "we certainly respect the macros, it takes tremendous skill to brew such a light, delicate, almost flavorless beer so consistently, and with nowhere to hide flaws...."  Read:  "We don't need skill.  Flaws are no concern.  We'll just pile on layer after layer of masking distractions."  As the prosecutor would say, "Your witness."
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.