[anthayes]

Because they're British and part of the EU.  That's why they mash in degrees Celsius and use EBC for colour.

Those would be examples of measurements that are different from most "English" measurements.  Celsius vs. Fahrenheit, EBC vs. Degrees Lovibond.  From what I read, EBU's and IBU's are the same, which is why I asked why there would be two names.  If an IBU of 35 is the same as an EBU of 35, why call it by a different name just because you're overseas?

Europe uses metric.

England uses a mix of metric and imperial - bit of a mess really.

and never underestimate the power of pigheadedness in choosing and sticking to names...

[euge]

Oh it isn't limited to Britain. I had a jeep once that came stock with both metric and standard bolts- sometimes on the same part! We need to take the plunge and accept Standard International Units completely.

[hopfenundmalz]

On the English IPA thinking.  I am drinking one I made last Sept. based on a Whitbread circa 1900 recipe that Kristen England posted on the "Shut Up About Barley Perkins" blog by Ron Pattinson.

This has turned out be be a drinker!  The last round of dry hops make it a really good IPA.  Ant Hayes is right, these benefit from aging.  One other thing, the SO4 was only about 275 for this one.

There were 2 Oz willamette and then later 2 oz styrian goldings for dry hops after aging for one year.

2009 Whitbread IPA circa 1900
A ProMash Recipe Report
Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (Gal):        11.50    Wort Size (Gal):   11.50
Total Grain (Lbs):       27.00
Anticipated OG:          1.074    Plato:             17.98
Anticipated SRM:           5.7
Anticipated IBU:          66.1
Brewhouse Efficiency:       83 %
Wort Boil Time:             95    Minutes

Formulas Used
--
Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used:   Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Tinseth
Tinseth Concentration Factor: 1.00

Grain/Extract/Sugar

   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 100.0    27.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row)              Great Britain  1.038      3

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops

   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  7.00 oz.    Goldings - E.K.                   Whole    4.18  37.6  85 min.
  5.00 oz.    Goldings - E.K.                   Whole    4.14  24.5  55 min.
  4.00 oz.    Goldings - E.K.                   Whole    4.14   4.0  5 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1028 London Ale


Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs:   27.00
Water Qts:   33.75 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal:    8.44 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.25 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp :   151  Time:   60
Mash-out Rest Temp :           168  Time:   10


Total Mash Volume Gal: 10.60 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.



Notes
-----

Loss function on the Goldings at 16 months.

[The Professor]

On the English IPA thinking.  I am drinking one I made last Sept. based on a Whitbread circa 1900 recipe that Kristen England posted on the "Shut Up About Barley Perkins" blog by Ron Pattinson.

This has turned out be be a drinker!  The last round of dry hops make it a really good IPA.  Ant Hayes is right, these benefit from aging.  One other thing, the SO4 was only about 275 for this one.

There were 2 Oz willamette and then later 2 oz styrian goldings for dry hops after aging for one year.

Well there you go. 
I feel validated now, since I've been extolling the joys of a well aged IPA here and elsewhere for years.  To me, the aging is one of the things that  define IPA. 

I somehow missed the entry on the "Shut Up about..." blog covering the Whitbread IPA, but it's interesting that the formula you cite --the one  Kristen contributed to Ron's excellent blog-- compares quite well to the specs of my beloved Ballantine IPA.  The OG reported is in the same ballpark, the IBUs were similar (though perhaps slightly higher on the Ballantine version), and the aging period for the beer (in wood) was one full year at the Newark brewery (and even when the brand initially moved to Cranston, RI). 
The intense aromatics of the Ballantine would reflect the late dry hopping (and in their case, liberal use of distilled hop aromatics).

Seems to me that the similarities to the Whitbread would confirm that Ballantine was indeed telling the truth about their IPA being brewed from an authentic British recipe.   Apparently all of their products got a bit of a makeover when their new brewmaster arrived from Scotland after the repeal of prohibition. 
All I can say is, "...he done good..."

[hopfenundmalz]

Professor, after brewing this, I was reading about Ballantines IPA, and came to a the conclusion that it was similar.   If you have  a good recipe. please post it.  I have seen Jeff Renners take on the HBD, so any other information is welcome.  Just so you know, I am of the age to have been drinking Ballantines IPA in the 1975 time frame.  My intoduction to the IPA category and hop flavor.

Another one that is similar is the classic SSoS.  Brewed it several times, but never aged it.  The last few pints of the batch were excellent, though. 
http://www.realbeer.com/hops/sister.html

You will note the similarities to this one, and I think it is very cool that a SSoS type recipe is still winning awards after all of these years.
 http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/BlitzkriegHops

[markaberrant]

Professor, after brewing this, I was reading about Ballantines IPA, and came to a the conclusion that it was similar.   If you have  a good recipe. please post it.  I have seen Jeff Renners take on the HBD, so any other information is welcome.  Just so you know, I am of the age to have been drinking Ballantines IPA in the 1975 time frame.  My intoduction to the IPA category and hop flavor.

Another one that is similar is the classic SSoS.  Brewed it several times, but never aged it.  The last few pints of the batch were excellent, though. 
http://www.realbeer.com/hops/sister.html

You will note the similarities to this one, and I think it is very cool that a SSoS type recipe is still winning awards after all of these years.
 http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/BlitzkriegHops

Yes, I certainly borrowed from the SSoS recipe.  I tried getting in touch with Dave Brockton to thank him, but couldn't find a current contact.

[bluesman]

Well there you go. 
I feel validated now, since I've been extolling the joys of a well aged IPA here and elsewhere for years.  To me, the aging is one of the things that  define IPA. 

I somehow missed the entry on the "Shut Up about..." blog covering the Whitbread IPA, but it's interesting that the formula you cite --the one  Kristen contributed to Ron's excellent blog-- compares quite well to the specs of my beloved Ballantine IPA.  The OG reported is in the same ballpark, the IBUs were similar (though perhaps slightly higher on the Ballantine version), and the aging period for the beer (in wood) was one full year at the Newark brewery (and even when the brand initially moved to Cranston, RI). 
The intense aromatics of the Ballantine would reflect the late dry hopping (and in their case, liberal use of distilled hop aromatics).

Seems to me that the similarities to the Whitbread would confirm that Ballantine was indeed telling the truth about their IPA being brewed from an authentic British recipe.   Apparently all of their products got a bit of a makeover when their new brewmaster arrived from Scotland after the repeal of prohibition. 
All I can say is, "...he done good..."

Would you care to share your clone recipe of Ballantine?

[hopfenundmalz]

Yes, I certainly borrowed from the SSoS recipe.  I tried getting in touch with Dave Brockton to thank him, but couldn't find a current contact.

Mark,

I remember that he went to Europe on a post-Doc or teaching position.  That was back in the 90's.  Oh, this may help a little, but seems to be a dead end.  You may have found it already.
http://www.hbd.org/brewery/taproom/About.html

Jeff

[The Professor]

Would you care to share your clone recipe of Ballantine?

I intend to do that, definitely. 
In the meantime, the formula given in the recent BYO article looks to be a fairly good starting point and  is remarkably in sync with one of the recipes I came up with independently. Which brings me to...

The only problem I have in posting my own take on it really is deciding which one to post...I've played around with formulas for this brew for a very long time (the original was in fact still being made when I first started to try and clone it).   As a result,  oddly enough I have come up with at least 4 distinctly different formulations that (to me anyway) come very close to the character of the brew that I drank so much of in the late 60's/early 70's.  Some of the experiments stay fairly close to what I have been able to turn up about the original beer, and other stabs at it definitely stray from the original formula and yet still manage to recreate the character pretty convincingly. 
However the two constants (and absolute musts) for truly recreating this beer, are the year of aging and the combination dry hopping and dosing with distilled aromatic hop oil that happens in the final month or two of the long aging.   It still impresses me that a large brewery gave so much attention 40-50 years ago to what was certainly a niche product for them...and that the new commercial brewers have only fairly recently turned attention to proper, long aging of certain beers.

In any case, I  am also working on an extended and  fairly in-depth piece that discusses this beer at length ...hopefully  it will find its way into print somewhere eventually.

[boulderbrewer]

Thanks Al for your insight, I might have enough clues now. Ron has an award winning PA recipe that should give some insight to the brewers looking for tips.

For the rest. You have to read alot and then read alot to get where you are headed. Don't forget to listen.

[roguejim]

When you talk about aging an EIPA for 12-18 months, are we talking in tertiary?  Carboy?  Keg?

[anthayes]

Aging is advised for both EIPAs and WIPAs. Modern British practice is to age in stainless - corny or sankey kegs mainly. Anything airtight, light shielding and infection resistant will do.

You could call it "secondary" although not much fermentation takes place. Conditioning is the term that I would use.

The big question is warm or cold conditioning. I condition at -1°C as this improves colloidal stability and reduces risk of off flavours growing, however there are arguments for room temperature conditioning in terms of greater flavour development (remembering that it does not get that hot in Britain - perhaps up to 25°C indoors in summer).

Ant Hayes
Tonbridge, Kent

[seajellie]

So it's been two years now... how did those two year old aging EIPAs turn out?

Or did you drink them all already!

Great bits of info in this thread. Been pondering an EIPA, as a have a load of EKG flower hops, and lots of Styrian Goldings which I understand as being transplanted Fuggles.  Glad to see Jeff's post up higher about dry hopping with SG. Also have some very healthy Wyeast 1469 (W Yorkshire) to harvest.

EIPA looks like a good style to make a big batch of, to make sure you can actually keep a few gallons in reserve for two years! But I can squeeze just six kegs into my fridge, so this will have to age in the cellar, 55 - 70 over the year.

Am thinking that I'd trend towards the lighter (colorwise) type, rather than one with lots of mid crystal malt. One reason is I'm making an ESB anyway with lots of cara 60; other is, I seem to prefer less of the mid and upper crystal malts in IPA-hoppy beers. Sometimes a lot of big crystal in IPAs works for me, sometimes not.

Anyway, any advice or recipes welcome. Thanks in advance!

[hopfenundmalz]

Mine have been good. I have some now that were dry hopped after aging. Love it.

Got a small shock when I hit this thread. Saw Ant Hayes just above. Wow, that was a shock.

There will be the CoC named for Ant next month, my club is running the judging. Ant committed suicide a little less than 2 years back IIRC. A very sad time that was.

[seajellie]

man, sorry for yours and everyone else's loss.  And sorry to be an unfortunate reminder.

I actually live in Ann Arbor. Will look up the AABG.