Author Topic: Getting Back at it. Any tips appreciated.  (Read 3915 times)

Offline Robert

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Re: Getting Back at it. Any tips appreciated.
« Reply #60 on: June 28, 2019, 09:22:15 pm »
Dave is right.  There's science behind this, studies to debunk the stuff, but I can't point you to them just now.  For decades, the hype was, "nobody knows how, but it does this..." but it doesn't.  That's why nobody knew how.  Carapils/CaraFoam at 1-2% can definitely give a pleasant and clearly distingushable nutty taste in a beer light and clean and delicate enough to detect it in.  Use it for that if you like (even though it's commonly referred to as flavorless!)  But it not only doesn't help with foam and body -- Dave sells it short there.  In fact, every beer I've ever used it in had inferior body and foam compared to the same beer made without it.  (I have my own pet theories about some mechanisms behind this, in addition to others I've read.)  The conventional proposition seems to have been something to do with unfermented "malto-dextrines" making some positive contribution.  But already in the 19th century, scientific brewing texts deride this as a quaint myth circulated a couple of generations earlier, asserting rightly that such unfermented sugars make for a thinner palate and less stable foam.   So why do the manufacturers still advertise it in the familiar way?  People keep paying them for the stuff. 
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Getting Back at it. Any tips appreciated.
« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2019, 09:58:51 pm »

Suggestion: Try rye, either flaked or malted, about 10-20% of the total grist.  Rye is far superior to wheat, oats, or Carapils (which does nothing).

Carapils does nothing?  That's unfortunate since I plan on using some in my Cream Ale.

Did I buy into some hype?  From Briess:
"The original Carapils® Malt is a unique, dextrine-style malt that consistently increases foam, improves head retention and enhances mouthfeel without adding flavor or color to your beer."

Yup.  I love Briess, but about this... they're just wrong.
Dave

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Offline denny

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Re: Getting Back at it. Any tips appreciated.
« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2019, 07:19:11 am »
There is a lot of hype concerning using ingredients to improve foam.  In reality it comes down to process much more than ingredients.  A good example is Duvel.  Maybe the best foam in the beer world and it's nothing more than pils malt and sugar.  The key is yeast health and good fermentation.
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Online BrewBama

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Getting Back at it. Any tips appreciated.
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2019, 04:39:11 pm »
There is a lot of hype concerning using ingredients to improve foam.  In reality it comes down to process much more than ingredients ...

I agree.




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Offline Megary

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Re: Getting Back at it. Any tips appreciated.
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2019, 08:11:04 pm »
How do we know that's not a toupee?  ;D

Online ynotbrusum

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Re: Getting Back at it. Any tips appreciated.
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2019, 04:27:21 am »
One ingredient that helps the process is yeast nutrient with zinc.  While there is typically plenty of zinc in wort to get the job done, a boost of nutrient really helps aid in healthy yeast being maintained through the process.  Clarity and foam retention seem to be improved with this simpleate boil addition.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Getting Back at it. Any tips appreciated.
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2019, 05:04:50 am »
One ingredient that helps the process is yeast nutrient with zinc.  While there is typically plenty of zinc in wort to get the job done, a boost of nutrient really helps aid in healthy yeast being maintained through the process.  Clarity and foam retention seem to be improved with this simpleate boil addition.
That's true, that zinc is essential, but in fact, virtually all wort that is not supplemented is severely deficient in zinc.  Even if analyses make it appear that the water and malt would provide sufficient zinc (~0.1- 0.2ppm,) almost all of it is retained in the spent grain after mashing and most of the rest is unavailable to yeast due to chelation, so adding zinc to the boil is absolutely essential.   Servomyces is a Reinheitsgebot compliant source  -- just dead yeast that has been grown on a zinc rich medium (pretending that nobody added that zinc to the medium!) -- which costs an arm and a leg.*   Wyeast nutrient is dirt cheap, provides plenty of zinc, and a few other things you may or may not need, but can't hurt.  I use it at the recommended rate of 2.2g/5 gal in every beer.  Incidentally, copper and other trace minerals play a similar role in fermentation and foam development, so those of us especially who use RO water will probably benefit from those trace nutrients in the Wyeast product, whatever they may be, and copper wort chillers may be a help and not the bogeyman some make them out to be.

*Fun anecdote.  Before the introduction of Servomyces,  German brewers seemed to have a universal problem of continually "losing" lengths of chain and other such chunks of galvanized metal in the bottom of the boil kettle and "forgetting" to retrieve them.  They feigned shock if confronted by the enforcers of the Reinheitsgebot.  But their beer fermented rapidly and fully, cleared well, and had great foam.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

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Online ynotbrusum

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Re: Getting Back at it. Any tips appreciated.
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2019, 06:42:59 am »
Thanks for the clarification, Rob.  I should have said that wort is typically “thought” to have enough zinc in it - and yes, I brew with RO water and must adjust to get proper strike water profiles, also.  I use Wyeast Nutrient for the lower cost, too - much cheaper.

I never thought to use a chain to adjust wort chemistry!  Dosing must be tough to know when using that method...haha! 
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Offline Megary

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Re: Getting Back at it. Any tips appreciated.
« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2019, 11:41:31 am »
Servomyces is a Reinheitsgebot compliant source  -- just dead yeast that has been grown on a zinc rich medium (pretending that nobody added that zinc to the medium!) -- which costs an arm and a leg.*   Wyeast nutrient is dirt cheap, provides plenty of zinc, and a few other things you may or may not need, but can't hurt.  I use it at the recommended rate of 2.2g/5 gal in every beer.

I assume you are using the Servo capsules. The description says one capsule/5 gallons added to the wort with about 10 minutes left in the boil. But if I read the green blister pack (More Beer) it says one capsule for 1-7 gallons. I'm curious since I am making 2.5 gallon batches (and actually a bit less because of residual losses). Do you think I should still use one capsule or open the capsule and use half?

Another point, I'm probably over pitching as it is, since most yeast packs (I assume) are for 5 gallons of standard gravity beer. The full Nottingham Ale yeast packs that I used in these Pale Ales *appeared* to work fine since fermentation started and finished as expected (I say appeared because I really have nothing to compare them to.  Just going on the fact that FG was where it ought to have been and I haven't noticed any of the typical home brew off flavors).  The US-05 I pitched in this weekend's Cream Ale also got going in about 7-8 hours and is currently chugging along (a bit more deliberately, but chugging nonetheless).

Offline Robert

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Re: Getting Back at it. Any tips appreciated.
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2019, 11:51:35 am »
I'd say your pitch rate is fine, especially if it's working (the measure that matters.)  One pack provides typical homebrew rate for 5 gallons,  but that's under pitching by commercial standards. And I'd just use the one full Servomyces capsule too, since it says 1-7 gallons.  BTW when I've used Servomyces I've found the capsule sometimes doesn't dissolve in the 10 minute boil time, so I took to opening it up and tossing it all in.  I take it the cream ale session went well, that should hit the spot in the dog days!
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline Megary

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Re: Getting Back at it. Any tips appreciated.
« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2019, 12:23:48 pm »
I'd say your pitch rate is fine, especially if it's working (the measure that matters.)  One pack provides typical homebrew rate for 5 gallons,  but that's under pitching by commercial standards. And I'd just use the one full Servomyces capsule too, since it says 1-7 gallons.  BTW when I've used Servomyces I've found the capsule sometimes doesn't dissolve in the 10 minute boil time, so I took to opening it up and tossing it all in.  I take it the cream ale session went well, that should hit the spot in the dog days!

Thanks.  I'll give one of these capsules a try on my next beer, probably a little higher gravity IPA that's still in research stages.  :)

The Cream Ale session went very well, thanks.  I have confirmed the crush setting on the KA grain mill!  I haven't done the calculations yet, but I went in assuming 75% and an OG of 1.053.  I measured 1.054.  That's awfully reassuring. Only issue I had was, while racking to the fermenter, I looked over and saw my sanitized black cap for the end of the tube sitting on the counter!  So obviously I transferred a bit more trub than appropriate. Good thing I gave the wort a whirlpool and was able to stay away from the middle of the pot.  Rookie mistake!   :-[
The sample I took tasted pretty damn good and the color looked like straw.  Hopefully the US05 does its job. 

This is a pretty cool hobby, can't believe it took me 20 years to get back into it.  Lol.