Author Topic: Potential Extract of Rye Malt.  (Read 243 times)

Offline charlie

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Potential Extract of Rye Malt.
« on: September 22, 2019, 11:08:40 PM »
The potential extract of rye malt is listed at 1.029, and I was aware of that going into this. BeerSmith takes care of that, but I'm getting some OG results that I don't understand:

Rye Brew   % Rye   Calc OG   Actual OG
13      35.0%    1.052   1.059
12      28.6%     1.055   1.058
11      28.6%   1.055   1.055
10      28.6%   1.055   1.062
 9      26.2%   1.055   1.060

My all malted barley brews are spot on, and rye 11 is spot on, but the others are high. And Rye 10 is crazy high!

All gravities were taken with Plato Saccharometers (which are pretty damn accurate) and temperature corrected. Usually I take three or four readings as the temperature rises, and they all agree. So I'm getting crazy efficiency on some (but not all) of these rye brews!

The OG samples are taken using the wort that remains in my Thermonator after the brew is chilled which is usually around 200ml. So I'm pretty sure that sampling error is not the issue. My balance is calibrated, and I'm pretty good at taking measurements, so that's not the issue either.

Charlie
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 11:25:20 PM by charlie »
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Potential Extract of Rye Malt.
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2019, 01:42:22 AM »
Are these all from the same sack of grain?  Same maltster?  Is the 1.029 expectation a ‘rule of thumb’ that can be explained by variations in an agricultural product?


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Offline Iliff Ave Brewhouse

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Re: Potential Extract of Rye Malt.
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2019, 01:53:15 AM »
Who’s the maltster? I use weyermann and a trusted source reported that 1.036 is an accurate potential extract.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Potential Extract of Rye Malt.
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2019, 01:57:28 AM »
1.029 sounds crazy low to me.  Rye is a naked grain with a crap ton of starch.  Analyses I've seen give extract potential even higher than wheat malt,  just shy of corn adjunct, like around 84% FGDB.  I'd extrapolate a realistic number from your actual results, and plug that into your software in the future.
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Offline Bob357

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Re: Potential Extract of Rye Malt.
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2019, 02:36:29 AM »
Briess lists the potential from their rye malt at1.037 ( 80% yield). Viking lists theirs at 81% yield. I tend to trust the maltster's analysis.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 02:39:03 AM by Bob357 »
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Offline Robert

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Re: Potential Extract of Rye Malt.
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2019, 02:40:46 AM »
I have a sheet from Briess that lists theirs at 84%.  Like any brewing ingredient,  it's an agricultural product and probably highly variable, but still the figure in the OP seems entirely out of range.  Ideally, get a lot analysis.   Realistically, infer your own.
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Offline denny

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Re: Potential Extract of Rye Malt.
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2019, 02:24:35 PM »
1.029 sounds crazy low to me.  Rye is a naked grain with a crap ton of starch.  Analyses I've seen give extract potential even higher than wheat malt,  just shy of corn adjunct, like around 84% FGDB.  I'd extrapolate a realistic number from your actual results, and plug that into your software in the future.

I agree.  I use 1.036 for both Briess and Mecca Grade rye malt and it works for me.
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Offline charlie

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Re: Potential Extract of Rye Malt.
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2019, 04:35:00 PM »
Maltster? Whatever my LBHS gets. I recall Briess, a generic batch from LD Carlson, and a couple I don't remember being attributed. The rye I have queued up for the next batch is "American Rye Malt" from a company called "Brewmaster". I habitually use Briess 5298 base malt, so I'll start paying attention.

Those are excellent observations! Thanks guys.

UPDATE: Brewmaster's website says that their rye malt is Briess 5332 Rye Malt, and the data sheet says that its potential extract, DBFG, is 80%. That calculates out to a potential of  1.0369. I'm going to change my brew program accordingly.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 09:44:32 PM by charlie »
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Offline charlie

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Re: Potential Extract of Rye Malt.
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2019, 10:24:15 PM »
This issue reminded me of a situation I encountered in 2009-10. I was an all grain newbie having mashed in on my first brew January 4, 2009, and as I became more experienced I began documenting my brews pretty heavily. This included taking OG and FG readings and looking at my mash efficiency.

I was using BeerSmith at the time, and I started getting some crazy efficiency readings. I mean 90% crazy! I mentioned it on my club's forum and they started saying that the beer fairy was smiling on me. But it turned out to be nothing of the kind. I was doing two things wrong:

1. I neglected to take the 4% shrinkage of boiling wort when chilled to 68F into consideration.

2. I was taking my OG samples from the dregs of the boil kettle.

The problem with #1 is obvious, but what was happening with #2 is that it might be 30 minutes or more post-boil until I collected the OG sample. In that 30 minutes or so the  remaining wort in the hot kettle was evaporating and concentrating. Once I factored in the 4% and began taking my OG sample from the Thermonator the errors disappeared.

Here's an article that I thought might be of interest to the group.

http://beersmith.com/blog/2014/11/05/brewhouse-efficiency-vs-mash-efficiency-in-all-grain-beer-brewing/#targetText=Mash%20efficiency%20is%20simply%20the,points%20extracted%20from%20the%20mash.

Charlie
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Offline BrewBama

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Potential Extract of Rye Malt.
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2019, 10:55:38 PM »
Good stuff Charlie.

Ck this out: when was a kid I thought I lived in Shreveport–Bossier because all three TV channels we got on the Curtis Mathis were from there. I later learned I was from Kilgore Texas (~45 min W).  LOL

Cheers my friend!



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Offline charlie

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Re: Potential Extract of Rye Malt.
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2019, 12:53:26 AM »
Good stuff Charlie.

Ck this out: when was a kid I thought I lived in Shreveport–Bossier because all three TV channels we got on the Curtis Mathis were from there. I later learned I was from Kilgore Texas (~45 min W).  LOL

Cheers my friend!

I know Kilgore well. My dad and I delivered and picked up a bunch of drilling equipment in Kilgore in the early '70s. Good times!

Charlie
Yes officer, I know that I smell like beer. I'm not drinking it, I'm wearing it!