Author Topic: Oxidation question  (Read 1231 times)

Offline goose

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2019, 01:54:22 PM »

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Well, it sounds like you have a reason.  I seldom use a secondary but dry hopping is an exception for me.  I cold crash the primary,  xfer to secondary,  dry hop and crash again.
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Same here, Denny.  I tried dry hopping in the conical so I didn't have to transfer and had a hell of a time kegging the beer from the conical (even after burping out most of the dry hops before starting) because iI kept plugging up my inline screen.  I only now transfer IPA's to a secondary (more precisely a brite tank), purging the hell out of the vessel prior to the transfer.  Makes things go a lot easier at kegging time which is a closed transfer.  Plus, the transfer seems to rouse the yeast a bit which adds a bit more CO2 to the head space.

Like Denny says, I do the best to minimize O2 pickup then don't worry about it.
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Offline denny

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2019, 02:15:08 PM »
As Martin suggested dry hopping can be one of the biggest factors in O2 ingress. One thing you can try is adding your hops to a keg, purging the keg with co2 then racking the beer onto the hops (via closed transfer if possible). You can also add the hops near the end of active fermentation so that the yeast scavenge the o2.
I always have experience yeast activity after dry hopping. This will take care of any free oxygen. There was a study at MBAA that talk about “dry hop creep” that some hops could have enzyme to break dextrens  and allow for refermentation.

Last thing you can have stailing of your beer even with out oxygen due to too much FAN and fatty acids.

I am like a walking knowledge. I just returned from Malt U :)

Hop Creep is certainly real but I havent found it to be enough to avoid oxidation pitfalls.

I actually tried to make hop creep happen to study the effects.  2 tries so far no hop creep.  3rd try coming up.
Denny, you king of podcast. There was an presentation at MBAA about hop creep. You can listen to it here. http://masterbrewerspodcast.com/098-dry-hop-creep You do not have to be a MBAA member to access the podcast.

Keith, I have experienced refermentation after dry hoping after reaching terminal gravity. My only explanation is that it is availability of oxygen and enzyme activity from dry hops. Granted I was using 3.5lb/BBL.

Thanks, Leos.  I'm familiar with the info in there.  It's not that I think hop creep doesn't happen.  But i dp think that homebrewers re too quick to call hop crerrp when something unexpected happens.  There's too much that isn't understood about it.
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Offline denny

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2019, 02:17:29 PM »
Denny - I have definitely experienced hop creep .... very much in unfortunate instances. Think of a $50,000 recall and you will understand how unfortunate. At YH we would force age, force ferment, and inventory EVERYTHING. I've seen it happen on more than one occasion. FYI I also believe in biotransformation... that's also a very real phenomenon. Just sayin'. ;)

The pod cast Thirsty Monk mentions is a good one. Check it out.

Keith, I'm not by any means questioning that it happens.  But I am questioning how ubiquitous it is.  And it appears that I may have stumbled on a way to prevent it, at least at the homebrew level.
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Offline narvin

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2019, 05:51:44 PM »
For what it's worth, I haven't experienced oxidation with large amounts of dry hopping during fermentation.  I have experienced almost instant oxidation, however, after keg hopping with whole leaf.
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Offline denny

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2019, 06:04:59 PM »
For what it's worth, I haven't experienced oxidation with large amounts of dry hopping during fermentation.  I have experienced almost instant oxidation, however, after keg hopping with whole leaf.

Its great that the decision is so clear for you. I don't care for the flavors I get by dry hopping during fermentation, it's not an option for me.  I now cold crash the primary, dry hop in a CO2 flushed secondary, crash again, then keg.  Works for me.
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Offline narvin

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2019, 06:28:59 PM »
For what it's worth, I haven't experienced oxidation with large amounts of dry hopping during fermentation.  I have experienced almost instant oxidation, however, after keg hopping with whole leaf.

Its great that the decision is so clear for you. I don't care for the flavors I get by dry hopping during fermentation, it's not an option for me.  I now cold crash the primary, dry hop in a CO2 flushed secondary, crash again, then keg.  Works for me.

It's style dependent, for sure, but I like the results for NE IPA types of beer using either 1318 or WLP007.

Dry hopping with pellets, directly in the primary after fermentation is complete and 5 days before cold crashing, hasn't caused oxidation issues for me either.  However, I'm still suspicious of the kegging step even with a completely purged and closed transfer, since it seems like there is a marked decrease in hoppiness after only 2 weeks.  I'm planning on moving to spunding for carbonation to test if I can detect a difference.
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Offline denny

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2019, 07:32:24 PM »
For what it's worth, I haven't experienced oxidation with large amounts of dry hopping during fermentation.  I have experienced almost instant oxidation, however, after keg hopping with whole leaf.

Its great that the decision is so clear for you. I don't care for the flavors I get by dry hopping during fermentation, it's not an option for me.  I now cold crash the primary, dry hop in a CO2 flushed secondary, crash again, then keg.  Works for me.

It's style dependent, for sure, but I like the results for NE IPA types of beer using either 1318 or WLP007.

Dry hopping with pellets, directly in the primary after fermentation is complete and 5 days before cold crashing, hasn't caused oxidation issues for me either.  However, I'm still suspicious of the kegging step even with a completely purged and closed transfer, since it seems like there is a marked decrease in hoppiness after only 2 weeks.  I'm planning on moving to spunding for carbonation to test if I can detect a difference.

Sounding is something else I can't do because I can't control my schedule well enough.  I use pellets for everything 99% of the time these days. 
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Offline Bilsch

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2019, 02:36:32 AM »
Avoid beer contact with oxygen. Experience has shown that the bottleneck air in the filling process is the main cause of high oxygen content in beer. So much oxygen content can easily cause beer oxidation. Elevated dissolved oxygen caused by the filtration process is a secondary factor causing oxidation. To prevent beer oxidation, malt: uses high-quality malt with a moisture content of less than 6% and requires a low polyphenol content.

Oh there are so many ways to oxidize a beer!

Online Robert

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2019, 02:40:23 AM »
Avoid beer contact with oxygen. Experience has shown that the bottleneck air in the filling process is the main cause of high oxygen content in beer. So much oxygen content can easily cause beer oxidation. Elevated dissolved oxygen caused by the filtration process is a secondary factor causing oxidation. To prevent beer oxidation, malt: uses high-quality malt with a moisture content of less than 6% and requires a low polyphenol content.

Oh there are so many ways to oxidize a beer!
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