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Author Topic: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?  (Read 2098 times)

Offline Megary

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Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« on: July 14, 2019, 03:02:00 pm »
It has been over 20 years since I last used a pack of liquid yeast.  For my next beer I plan on using 1450, but I'm slightly concerned because it wasn't delivered in a timely fashion.  I ordered the ice pack, but FedEx took their grand ol time. Not the end of the world (I'll have a pack of US-05 on hand just in case), but is there a way of knowing pre-pitch if the liquid yeast is viable?

The directions say to break the interior nutrient packet, vigorously shake, and (optional) let the yeast sit for 3 hours (give or take) at room temp.  If I do this, the package should expand.

This is probably a ridiculous question but can I assume that if the package blows up, the yeast is happy?  And if it doesn't, go to Plan B?  Or is an expanding package irrelevant to yeast health?

Offline denny

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Re: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2019, 03:14:51 pm »
It has been over 20 years since I last used a pack of liquid yeast.  For my next beer I plan on using 1450, but I'm slightly concerned because it wasn't delivered in a timely fashion.  I ordered the ice pack, but FedEx took their grand ol time. Not the end of the world (I'll have a pack of US-05 on hand just in case), but is there a way of knowing pre-pitch if the liquid yeast is viable?

The directions say to break the interior nutrient packet, vigorously shake, and (optional) let the yeast sit for 3 hours (give or take) at room temp.  If I do this, the package should expand.

This is probably a ridiculous question but can I assume that if the package blows up, the yeast is happy?  And if it doesn't, go to Plan B?  Or is an expanding package irrelevant to yeast health?

I have a bit of experience with 1450....you are correct about the package expanding to indicate yeast viabililty.  It may take more or less time than 3 hours...probably more.  Also, I find 1450 packs are often expanded without popping the nutrients.  That's not a problem.  The best way to verify yeast viability is to make a starter.  Besides making sure your yeast is healthy, it will also make better beer for you.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2019, 09:08:51 pm »
It has been over 20 years since I last used a pack of liquid yeast.  For my next beer I plan on using 1450, but I'm slightly concerned because it wasn't delivered in a timely fashion.  I ordered the ice pack, but FedEx took their grand ol time. Not the end of the world (I'll have a pack of US-05 on hand just in case), but is there a way of knowing pre-pitch if the liquid yeast is viable?

The directions say to break the interior nutrient packet, vigorously shake, and (optional) let the yeast sit for 3 hours (give or take) at room temp.  If I do this, the package should expand.

This is probably a ridiculous question but can I assume that if the package blows up, the yeast is happy?  And if it doesn't, go to Plan B?  Or is an expanding package irrelevant to yeast health?

I have a bit of experience with 1450....you are correct about the package expanding to indicate yeast viabililty.  It may take more or less time than 3 hours...probably more.  Also, I find 1450 packs are often expanded without popping the nutrients.  That's not a problem.  The best way to verify yeast viability is to make a starter.  Besides making sure your yeast is healthy, it will also make better beer for you.
The pack I used last week was slightly swollen when I got it. According to MrMalty the date of manufacturing gave me the exact amount of yeast cells needed to ferment my batch. I pitched at 1 pm, saw slight signs of fermentation at 9 pm and it was burping along nicely at 7 am the next morning.
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Offline Megary

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Re: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2019, 05:10:23 am »

I have a bit of experience with 1450....you are correct about the package expanding to indicate yeast viabililty.  It may take more or less time than 3 hours...probably more.  Also, I find 1450 packs are often expanded without popping the nutrients.  That's not a problem.  The best way to verify yeast viability is to make a starter.  Besides making sure your yeast is healthy, it will also make better beer for you.

Thanks, Denny.  According to a yeast calculator, I should make a starter.  Apparently if my pack of 1450 was a lot fresher a starter wouldn't have been necessary. Another lesson learned: shopping for liquid yeast is like shopping for milk.

Offline Robert

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Re: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2019, 05:14:14 am »
^^^^
Yeast and milk can both be good longer than you might think.  Only way to know is try 'em.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline denny

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Re: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2019, 08:10:28 am »

I have a bit of experience with 1450....you are correct about the package expanding to indicate yeast viabililty.  It may take more or less time than 3 hours...probably more.  Also, I find 1450 packs are often expanded without popping the nutrients.  That's not a problem.  The best way to verify yeast viability is to make a starter.  Besides making sure your yeast is healthy, it will also make better beer for you.

Thanks, Denny.  According to a yeast calculator, I should make a starter.  Apparently if my pack of 1450 was a lot fresher a starter wouldn't have been necessary. Another lesson learned: shopping for liquid yeast is like shopping for milk.

IMO, a starter is always necessary for any beer over 1.040.  As you may have gathered, I'm not a big believer in cell count.   Yeah, you need enough,  but exact numbers don't really mean much.  As Chris White once said to me about yeast "homebrewers are too hung up on numbers"
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Megary

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Re: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2019, 09:23:42 am »

IMO, a starter is always necessary for any beer over 1.040.  As you may have gathered, I'm not a big believer in cell count.   Yeah, you need enough,  but exact numbers don't really mean much.  As Chris White once said to me about yeast "homebrewers are too hung up on numbers"

So if the starter is not about the numbers then what I have highlighted in bold would be true regardless of batch size?  I brew 2.5 gal.

Sorry to be a pain, but I want to make sure that I don't do any more work than I have to.   :D

Offline denny

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Re: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2019, 09:30:46 am »

IMO, a starter is always necessary for any beer over 1.040.  As you may have gathered, I'm not a big believer in cell count.   Yeah, you need enough,  but exact numbers don't really mean much.  As Chris White once said to me about yeast "homebrewers are too hung up on numbers"

So if the starter is not about the numbers then what I have highlighted in bold would be true regardless of batch size?  I brew 2.5 gal.

Sorry to be a pain, but I want to make sure that I don't do any more work than I have to.   :D

For 2.5 gal., I modify my rules.  A smack pack may not be enough for 5 gal., but it's pretty much always enough for 2.5 gal.  AAMOF, I just pitched a pick of 1450 directly into a 2.5 gal. 1.060 batch and had complete fermentation in less than a week. The pack was several months (6+) old. But again, I don't worry about numbers...I look at yeast vitality.  So, to go full circle back to your original question, if the pack shows viability after you smack it, you're good to go.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Megary

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Re: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2019, 09:56:50 am »

IMO, a starter is always necessary for any beer over 1.040.  As you may have gathered, I'm not a big believer in cell count.   Yeah, you need enough,  but exact numbers don't really mean much.  As Chris White once said to me about yeast "homebrewers are too hung up on numbers"

So if the starter is not about the numbers then what I have highlighted in bold would be true regardless of batch size?  I brew 2.5 gal.

Sorry to be a pain, but I want to make sure that I don't do any more work than I have to.   :D

For 2.5 gal., I modify my rules.  A smack pack may not be enough for 5 gal., but it's pretty much always enough for 2.5 gal.  AAMOF, I just pitched a pick of 1450 directly into a 2.5 gal. 1.060 batch and had complete fermentation in less than a week. The pack was several months (6+) old. But again, I don't worry about numbers...I look at yeast vitality.  So, to go full circle back to your original question, if the pack shows viability after you smack it, you're good to go.


That's good to know.  According to a yeast calculator I just looked at, 6+ months means they were all dead!

The beer I plan on making has a target OG of 1.059 and the yeast is about 3-1/2 months old.  If that package blows up, its getting pitched - as is.  If it doesn't blow up, I'll still pitch it...just not in the beer!

Offline denny

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Re: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2019, 10:53:08 am »

IMO, a starter is always necessary for any beer over 1.040.  As you may have gathered, I'm not a big believer in cell count.   Yeah, you need enough,  but exact numbers don't really mean much.  As Chris White once said to me about yeast "homebrewers are too hung up on numbers"

So if the starter is not about the numbers then what I have highlighted in bold would be true regardless of batch size?  I brew 2.5 gal.

Sorry to be a pain, but I want to make sure that I don't do any more work than I have to.   :D

For 2.5 gal., I modify my rules.  A smack pack may not be enough for 5 gal., but it's pretty much always enough for 2.5 gal.  AAMOF, I just pitched a pick of 1450 directly into a 2.5 gal. 1.060 batch and had complete fermentation in less than a week. The pack was several months (6+) old. But again, I don't worry about numbers...I look at yeast vitality.  So, to go full circle back to your original question, if the pack shows viability after you smack it, you're good to go.


That's good to know.  According to a yeast calculator I just looked at, 6+ months means they were all dead!

The beer I plan on making has a target OG of 1.059 and the yeast is about 3-1/2 months old.  If that package blows up, its getting pitched - as is.  If it doesn't blow up, I'll still pitch it...just not in the beer!

Good on ya!  If it doesn't expand, you could make a starter with it, pitch half now, and save the other half for another batch.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Kevin

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Re: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2019, 07:30:49 pm »
It has been over 20 years since I last used a pack of liquid yeast.  For my next beer I plan on using 1450, but I'm slightly concerned because it wasn't delivered in a timely fashion.  I ordered the ice pack, but FedEx took their grand ol time. Not the end of the world (I'll have a pack of US-05 on hand just in case), but is there a way of knowing pre-pitch if the liquid yeast is viable?

The directions say to break the interior nutrient packet, vigorously shake, and (optional) let the yeast sit for 3 hours (give or take) at room temp.  If I do this, the package should expand.

This is probably a ridiculous question but can I assume that if the package blows up, the yeast is happy?  And if it doesn't, go to Plan B?  Or is an expanding package irrelevant to yeast health?

I have a bit of experience with 1450....

lol!  ;D ;D
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Offline Megary

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Re: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2019, 06:28:28 pm »
Well, today, I used that 3-1/2 month old pack of 1450 in my 2.5 gal 1.055 OG batch.  According to an unnamed yeast calculator, I am 63 billion cells short and in need of a starter.  Regardless, I smacked the pack, shook it like a midnight rambler, and let it sit for about 4 hours. It blew up like a balloon and in it went.

6 hours later and the air lock is starting to burp.  In Denny, we trust.   :D

Offline Megary

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Re: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2019, 07:05:15 am »
By 8 hours, the airlock was like a steam engine.  24 hours, still the same.

I know there's more to it than just what the airlock does and maybe the yeast calculator numbers are right.  Unless, of course, they aren't, and they need some serious adjusting. I'm not saying that a starter wouldn't have been a good idea, but any opportunity to save time, ingredients, cleaning and reduce possible contamination seems like a win to me.  Brew and learn I guess.

Offline denny

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Re: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2019, 09:07:52 am »
By 8 hours, the airlock was like a steam engine.  24 hours, still the same.

I know there's more to it than just what the airlock does and maybe the yeast calculator numbers are right.  Unless, of course, they aren't, and they need some serious adjusting. I'm not saying that a starter wouldn't have been a good idea, but any opportunity to save time, ingredients, cleaning and reduce possible contamination seems like a win to me.  Brew and learn I guess.

There is a lot of debate about yeast calculators because different calculators show wildly different numbers.  All I worry about is pitching an appropriate amount of healthy yeast.  And I spent years with the yeast calculator/ stir plate method.  The results were no better than what I do now.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Megary

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Re: Verifying Liquid Yeast before pitch?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2019, 11:41:17 am »
Just to follow up, that direct-pitched, 3-1/2 month old pack of 1450 gave me an AA of 81%.