[rodwha]

Checked the gravity and found it at 1.042. It is supposed to hit about 1.021.

Would this even bottle carb??? Seems unlikely. Regardless I’m not happy with this. Is there any reason not to make a small starter and add yeast nutrient to that?

*EDIT *

A bit of background. I’ve been keeping US-05 going as I found it to give slightly higher attenuation and flocculation. I make a 1.5 qt starter using 6 oz of DME and save the pint using a quart. For this beer I doubled it since the OG was so high.

Until you do a FFT you have no idea if it will help.

FFT??? Sorry, I’m clueless as to what this stands for.

Forced ferment test.  You take a little, add a massive amount of yeast to ti (even bread yeast) and leave it at room temp.  The purpose is to see if the wort is fermentable.  If the gravity goes down after doing that, then additional yeast in the batch might help.  If it doesn't got down, them you have a wort issue and more yeast won't help.

Thanks for explaining that.

Why would there be a wort issue?

[denny]

Checked the gravity and found it at 1.042. It is supposed to hit about 1.021.

Would this even bottle carb??? Seems unlikely. Regardless I’m not happy with this. Is there any reason not to make a small starter and add yeast nutrient to that?

*EDIT *

A bit of background. I’ve been keeping US-05 going as I found it to give slightly higher attenuation and flocculation. I make a 1.5 qt starter using 6 oz of DME and save the pint using a quart. For this beer I doubled it since the OG was so high.

Until you do a FFT you have no idea if it will help.

FFT??? Sorry, I’m clueless as to what this stands for.

Forced ferment test.  You take a little, add a massive amount of yeast to ti (even bread yeast) and leave it at room temp.  The purpose is to see if the wort is fermentable.  If the gravity goes down after doing that, then additional yeast in the batch might help.  If it doesn't got down, them you have a wort issue and more yeast won't help.

Thanks for explaining that.

Why would there be a wort issue?

Could be a lot of unfermentables in the wort.  You don't know til you do the test.

[rodwha]

Checked the gravity and found it at 1.042. It is supposed to hit about 1.021.

Would this even bottle carb??? Seems unlikely. Regardless I’m not happy with this. Is there any reason not to make a small starter and add yeast nutrient to that?

*EDIT *

A bit of background. I’ve been keeping US-05 going as I found it to give slightly higher attenuation and flocculation. I make a 1.5 qt starter using 6 oz of DME and save the pint using a quart. For this beer I doubled it since the OG was so high.

Until you do a FFT you have no idea if it will help.

FFT??? Sorry, I’m clueless as to what this stands for.

Forced ferment test.  You take a little, add a massive amount of yeast to ti (even bread yeast) and leave it at room temp.  The purpose is to see if the wort is fermentable.  If the gravity goes down after doing that, then additional yeast in the batch might help.  If it doesn't got down, them you have a wort issue and more yeast won't help.

Thanks for explaining that.

Why would there be a wort issue?

Could be a lot of unfermentables in the wort.  You don't know til you do the test.

What harm might there be to forgoing the test and adding a starter with nutrient or using a higher gravity yeast?

[ynotbrusum]

At this point, if it doesn't taste right or has too much body to be drinakable (cloying, for example), you may be able to get it down further with a more attenuative and alcohol tolerant yeast, but the FFT will tell you without submitting the whole batch to the experiment and ending up with a yeast soup of a beer.  Or you can try your approach and, if it is unsuccessful then resort to use of another source of metabolizing the "unfermentables" (such as a Brett strain or diastaticus Sach C type), if there are starches or long chain dextrins in there preventing the further drop in gravity points.

[Robert]

Forced ferment test.  You take a little, add a massive amount of yeast to ti (even bread yeast) and leave it at room temp.  The purpose is to see if the wort is fermentable.  If the gravity goes down after doing that, then additional yeast in the batch might help.  If it doesn't got down, them you have a wort issue and more yeast won't help.

FFT is usually done at an elevated temperature and on a stir plate.  But of course Denny's misplaced his stir plate.  If you want details on the fancy way, Chris & Jamil's Yeast book has it.  Denny's simplified version sounds much less daunting and I can't see why it wouldn't give you the info you need.  Now that he's brought the obvious to my attention, I may be more inclined to do an FFT when there's any question as to attenuation limit.  I agree that I'd rather play it safe and try to suss this out on a small sample before messing with (messing up?) the whole batch, making a starter, etc.

[rodwha]

At this point, if it doesn't taste right or has too much body to be drinakable (cloying, for example), you may be able to get it down further with a more attenuative and alcohol tolerant yeast, but the FFT will tell you without submitting the whole batch to the experiment and ending up with a yeast soup of a beer.  Or you can try your approach and, if it is unsuccessful then resort to use of another source of metabolizing the "unfermentables" (such as a Brett strain or diastaticus Sach C type), if there are starches or long chain dextrins in there preventing the further drop in gravity points.

I’m actually less concerned about the ABV. I’m more concerned on it carbing.

[denny]

What harm might there be to forgoing the test and adding a starter with nutrient or using a higher gravity yeast?

Wasted time and yeast.  Undrinkable beer.  Or maybe no harm at all.

[denny]

Forced ferment test.  You take a little, add a massive amount of yeast to ti (even bread yeast) and leave it at room temp.  The purpose is to see if the wort is fermentable.  If the gravity goes down after doing that, then additional yeast in the batch might help.  If it doesn't got down, them you have a wort issue and more yeast won't help.

FFT is usually done at an elevated temperature and on a stir plate.  But of course Denny's misplaced his stir plate.  If you want details on the fancy way, Chris & Jamil's Yeast book has it.  Denny's simplified version sounds much less daunting and I can't see why it wouldn't give you the info you need.  Now that he's brought the obvious to my attention, I may be more inclined to do an FFT when there's any question as to attenuation limit.  I agree that I'd rather play it safe and try to suss this out on a small sample before messing with (messing up?) the whole batch, making a starter, etc.

I've done more than a few FFTs and never used a stir plate.

[Thirsty_Monk]

Checked the gravity and found it at 1.042. It is supposed to hit about 1.021.

Would this even bottle carb??? Seems unlikely. Regardless I’m not happy with this. Is there any reason not to make a small starter and add yeast nutrient to that?

*EDIT *

A bit of background. I’ve been keeping US-05 going as I found it to give slightly higher attenuation and flocculation. I make a 1.5 qt starter using 6 oz of DME and save the pint using a quart. For this beer I doubled it since the OG was so high.

I would actually make a big starter to finish it up. That is your best shot to bring FG down. 3 weeks is way too long fermentation.

Why would 3 weeks of fermentation be too long? Seems initially I had read that fermentation is typically done within a week or so, but that allowing it to warm to room temp and sit that the yeast will “clean up” after themselves eating some of what they produced.

I’ve never done shorter than 2 weeks with 3 being typical. I figured I’d let this go for 5-6 weeks being such a high gravity.

General rule is 1 Plato a day but I like to ferment everything in 10-14 days. It is also yeast strain dependent and some strains ferment faster.

You have some big beer there.

[Visor]

  My bet is that it's a wort fermentability issue, do like Denny says and do an FFT on a sample, if you can get your hands on EC-1118 or some other dry wine yeast I'd suggest using it as it'll ferment stuff most beer/ale yeasts can't, and it'll handle a LOT of alcohol. I would be surprised if it didn't take you down a few points. If you really have bottomed out, the only thing I can think of to take your FG down further is Amylo, but if you go that route, use a healthy amount of caution, used at the recommended dosage it could take you down to 0.

[denny]

  My bet is that it's a wort fermentability issue, do like Denny says and do an FFT on a sample, if you can get your hands on EC-1118 or some other dry wine yeast I'd suggest using it as it'll ferment stuff most beer/ale yeasts can't, and it'll handle a LOT of alcohol. I would be surprised if it didn't take you down a few points. If you really have bottomed out, the only thing I can think of to take your FG down further is Amylo, but if you go that route, use a healthy amount of caution, used at the recommended dosage it could take you down to 0.

Greatest works great and is often on hand.

[goose]

BSG also has a product called Amylase Enzyme, which is a powder.  I have added this to a beer that had a stuck fermentation and it has helped get the gravity down a bit more.  Most LHBS carry it.

That said I would do a FFT, as others have suggested, first.

[denny]

This thread prompted Drew and me to do a segment on the show coming out Wed. discussing the subject.

[rodwha]

I didn’t have any other yeast on hand to try the fermentability of this beer besides the US-05 that couldn’t handle any more alcohol so I ordered some Lallemand CBC-1 cask yeast that stated it could handle it. I let it go for a few days and checked it now and see it hasn’t moved. Where does this leave me and bottling it? I’m guessing with the new yeast it can handle the priming sugar but that’s about all I can expect, that the wort itself just isn’t fermentable.

How is it that the wort decided it was done?

I guess I’m glad I dosed it nicely with a lot of Chinook!

[Visor]

   I've used a good bit of CBC-1 and my results have been spotty at best, in most cases in higher ABV beers, if the original yeast doesn't have enough poop left to bottle condition, then the CBC doesn't help. I was hesitant to use the stuff originally, my concern being that if it by chance was able to metabolize sugars the original yeast couldn't, then the secondary fermentation of under utilized sugars plus the priming sugar had the potential of creating bottle bombs. Thus far, no beers that I dosed with CBC at bottling have come remotely close to being over carbonated. Quite the contrary, most were quite flat. I still keep some on hand, but I am reassessing whether it's worth using, or if it's just a waste of time and money.