[soymateofeo]

For 15 +I have been fermenting my IPAs and Pales for 10-14 days before dry hops.  It would take about 2-3 weeks before I got to keg.

My whole process has changed.  No secondary and whirlpool hops.  I am going to add my dry hops on day 4 of fermentation because that is supposed to cause something hop transformative.

How fast should I get this to a fermenter?  It just seems my  brew to keg times are outdated.

[denny]

Be aware that biotransformation with the hops may or may not happen.

[BrewBama]

I like to brew when the fermenter is empty and cleaned (no secondary), and keg when a keg is cleaned and empty.

Sometimes that can be up to three weeks. I don’t worry about it too much.


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[ynotbrusum]

As most folks around here say, the beer will tell you when it is done.  What I have found very interesting is the use of a vitality starter (SNS) or timely harvest and re-pitch really has made a big difference in how quickly my beer is finished fermenting.  I now use a Tilt hydrometer to verify that no change has occurred over a few days and can rack much earlier than I used to do (like you I was a 3-4 week wait guy in years past).

Old dogs can learn new tricks!

[denny]

As most folks around here say, the beer will tell you when it is done.  What I have found very interesting is the use of a vitality starter (SNS) or timely harvest and re-pitch really has made a big difference in how quickly my beer is finished fermenting.  I now use a Tilt hydrometer to verify that no change has occurred over a few days and can rack much earlier than I used to do (like you I was a 3-4 week wait guy in years past).

Old dogs can learn new tricks!

I completely agree!  I have gotten much better results with SNS than I ever did with the stir plate/crash/decant method.

[Robert]

Stir/crash/decant and harvest and repitch both get me ales to FG in 3 days and  cold fermented lagers within 7.  But unless you're measuring, appearances can be deceiving.  Bubbles don't mean much.  And you do want to leave a few more days for conditioning,  but several weeks is definitely a long time.   Suffficient pitch of healthy yeast, oxygenation,  and a little yeast nutrient help.

[soymateofeo]

This is the info I needed.  Everything used to so linear and distinct.  First ferment to final gravity, then conditikn, then dry hop and so on. 

It appears that with the right starter, i can get this together in 7-10 days.  4-5 days ferment while overlapping dry hops and conditioning.  I don't necessarily want to biotrans the hops but i do not want to wait 2 weeks to put them in.  Love this.  I Need to be vitality starter guy.  My 2-3 step starters on a stir plate are a PITA.

[soymateofeo]

Btw Denny.  What size vessel are you using for starters?

[denny]

Btw Denny.  What size vessel are you using for starters?

1 gal. glass juice jug.  The vessel needs to be 4x the size of the starter wort.

[Robert]

My 2-3 step starters on a stir plate are a PITA.

Like Denny's said elsewhere, simple is different for different people.   For me, my stepped propagation on a stir plate is simple and easy.  I do it when it's convenient, it takes care of itself, and the yeast is waiting in my fridge when I'm ready for it, just like my harvested repitching yeast.  Timing a vitality starter would be an impossible PITA for me.  Different strokes.

[denny]

My 2-3 step starters on a stir plate are a PITA.

Like Denny's said elsewhere, simple is different for different people.   For me, my stepped propagation on a stir plate is simple and easy.  I do it when it's convenient, it takes care of itself, and the yeast is waiting in my fridge when I'm ready for it, just like my harvested repitching yeast.  Timing a vitality starter would be an impossible PITA for me.  Different strokes.

I expected timing would be an issue for me, too, but I found a way to make it work.  I typically set up for brewing the day before I brew....measue and treat my water,  weigh and crush grain, etc.  I've just begun including making a starter as a part of all that.  I also feel like (note, no testing) that I'm getting better performance from SHE than I did from crashing and decanting.

[Robert]

My 2-3 step starters on a stir plate are a PITA.

Like Denny's said elsewhere, simple is different for different people.   For me, my stepped propagation on a stir plate is simple and easy.  I do it when it's convenient, it takes care of itself, and the yeast is waiting in my fridge when I'm ready for it, just like my harvested repitching yeast.  Timing a vitality starter would be an impossible PITA for me.  Different strokes.

I expected timing would be an issue for me, too, but I found a way to make it work.  I typically set up for brewing the day before I brew....measue and treat my water,  weigh and crush grain, etc.  I've just begun including making a starter as a part of all that.  I also feel like (note, no testing) that I'm getting better performance from SHE than I did from crashing and decanting.

I can definitely see the value in your method especially for those who use a fresh pitch for most batches.  Working out a way to time it would save the need for ever doing stepped starters, so overall effort saved.  Since almost all of my  batches are repitched, with propping up new yeast coming only a couple of times a year, I don't really mind the effort.  But I do remember back before I became a serial repitcher,  stepped starters really dictated and limited my brewing schedule.   Wish I'd known about vitality starters back then!

[denny]

My 2-3 step starters on a stir plate are a PITA.

Like Denny's said elsewhere, simple is different for different people.   For me, my stepped propagation on a stir plate is simple and easy.  I do it when it's convenient, it takes care of itself, and the yeast is waiting in my fridge when I'm ready for it, just like my harvested repitching yeast.  Timing a vitality starter would be an impossible PITA for me.  Different strokes.

I expected timing would be an issue for me, too, but I found a way to make it work.  I typically set up for brewing the day before I brew....measue and treat my water,  weigh and crush grain, etc.  I've just begun including making a starter as a part of all that.  I also feel like (note, no testing) that I'm getting better performance from SHE than I did from crashing and decanting.

I can definitely see the value in your method especially for those who use a fresh pitch for most batches.  Working out a way to time it would save the need for ever doing stepped starters, so overall effort saved.  Since almost all of my  batches are repitched, with propping up new yeast coming only a couple of times a year, I don't really mind the effort.  But I do remember back before I became a serial repitcher,  stepped starters really dictated and limited my brewing schedule.   Wish I'd known about vitality starters back then!

Yeah, a majority of my batches are repitches also. But for a new smack pack or old slurry that needs a starter,  SNS has proven itself to me.

[coolman26]

I've been stepping mine on the stir-plate.  Mainly because my yeast is always pretty old. I'd feel more comfortable with smaller batches, but my next 2 are 20ea.  SNS would be super easy with some canned wort. I'll be using the method on 5 gallon batches.   

[Robert]

I've been stepping mine on the stir-plate.  Mainly because my yeast is always pretty old. I'd feel more comfortable with smaller batches, but my next 2 are 20ea.  SNS would be super easy with some canned wort. I'll be using the method on 5 gallon batches.

Bingo.  Canned wort seems like a key to making this easy.  I don't can wort (since I only propagate a couple of times a year.)  Just boil wort in my propagation flask and chill.  So for me, that would be just the extra bit too much to do the night before brewing, and I'd use some of the ice I need the next day (freezer only holds so much, what with all the hops in there.)  I've evolved a system that works for me.  Everybody needs to do so for themselves.   If you're going to go the vitality route, making a big batch of canned wort once a year would be a worthwhile project.  For me it's something I'm happy to avoid.