[Jim1960]

So I'm puzzled...

I recently purchased an 10G electric system from someone getting out of the hobby.  This system is based on the Brutus20 from http://www.alenuts.com/alenuts/brutus20.html.  It's not built exactly like the description at alenuts has but it's very close. 

I've brewed about 4 batches on it now and am noticing a distinct hit to my overall efficiency.  I've been monitoring pH (the first batch was WAY off so I thought that might be an issue) and I *think* I have that dialed in.  I use a barley cruncher grain mill with the gap set to 0.038" and I don't think I've been getting a lot of whole grains through.  (I did a little research and some people were suggesting 0.04" but when I did that it seemed like a bunch of whole kernels fell through.  Guess I could have double milled but I didn't).  I just stepped up to a 3-roller Malt Muncher set to 0.038" but haven't used it yet.

Mash temperature for all batches set to 152 degrees and held pretty steady (one reason I invested in the system - I had always had a slight problem with temperature control) and usually mash for about 60-75 minutes.  The last batch I performed an iodine test to make sure that conversion was complete before I started the recirculation phase of the process.  I recirculate the mash and sparge (for lack of a better term) for the suggested 1 hour then transfer everything to the boil kettle.  My boils are usually 60 minutes (sometime 75).

The pre-boil gravity was low by about 3 points (measured 1.050, s/b 1.053)  I wasn't too worried about that.  However, at the end of the boil, the post-boil gravity should have been 1.072 but I only measure 1.054.  I'm not sure how that could be after boiling off almost 2 gallons of wort.  And all four batches have been like this - pre-boil gravities only a couple of points off  but post-boil gravity WAY, WAY off.  (I measured with both refractometer and hydrometer - both within a point of each other.)  All these "should be" gravities were a product of BeerSmith 3.0 software.

So, my question is this:  Is what I'm seeing something inherent in the Brutus20 system or should I just live with and add some DME after transferring to fermenter?  Or is there something else I should be trying? 

My hydrometer and refractometer both read 1.000 with distilled water at 68 degrees so I don't think there is any issue with that.  but I could be wrong. 

Is there something I'm misisng?   Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

thanks.

[Thirsty_Monk]

Are you sure you boiled off 2 gallons of wort?

[mainebrewer]

To go from an estimated 1.053 to 1.072, you would have to boil off 36% of your original volume. That seems like an awful lot for a 60-75 min boil. The 8% boil off rate you did get (1.05 to 1.054) is more reasonable. 

[Kevin]

The first thing you should do with a new system is to measure all of your volumes and losses to create an accurate equipment profile in Beersmith. You can not and will not get accurate estimates without an accurate equipment profile. If you know all of this and have been diligent in setting up your profile you can stop here. Newer brewers or those new to Beersmith might want to read on.

A lot of BS2/3 users will reply to that advise by saying, 'but I'm using the equipment profile listed in Beersmith'. Even Brad Smith suggests not relying on those profiles without customizing them to your system and your process. Use them only as a starting point.

A lot of the profiles (and even ingredients) in Beersmith are provided by users and a majority of those equipment profiles were created by somebody else and were tailored to their specific system. Who knows what kind of dip tubes they had in their kettles, what kind of false bottom, the length of their hoses or the type of pumps they used - all affect volume losses. You also don't know the vigor of their boil or at what altitude they brew at which definitely affects boil off rates. All of these little differences and more add up and will make a big difference to your results.

Here is a tutorial that will help you dial in your profile with the end result being software that helps rather than frustrates your brew days.
PS. It says it's for Beersmith 2 but the process is the same for BS3.

https://youtu.be/HwEbjOt8OR8

[KellerBrauer]

A couple of points popped out while reading the original post.  First, if I’m not mistaken, a hydrometer is calibrated at 60°F, not 68°.  So you may want to look closer at your calibration procedure.  Also, are you using an accurate conversion calculation when measuring with your hydrometer?  I use the calculator that comes with BS.  It’s pretty accurate.

Second, I have to agree with Kevin.  As  a BS user for many years and countless batches, I can tell you that an accurate Equipment Profile is paramount in achieving your targets - all of them.

Third, I’m not familiar with the Brutus system, but I can tell you that the boil-off rate (among other environmental considerations) depends on the exposed surface area of the wort and the vigor of the boil.  My boil-off rate is 1.5 gallons in 60 minutes.  My boil kettle is 18” in diameter and my burner is 72,000 btu.  So, if your boil kettle is larger than 18” and your burner is greater than 72,000 btu, than a boil-off rate of 2 gallons is highly possible.  This information is added for reference only.

Fourth, while I believe you need to concentrate on dialing in your Equipment Profile, you may also wish to contact the manufacturer.  As a previous contributor to the BS forum, I learned that many brewing equipment manufacturers realize many brewers use BS and have already developed an accurate Equipment Profile for their Equipment.  Worth looking into.

[Robert]

First, if I’m not mistaken, a hydrometer is calibrated at 60°F, not 68°. 

Some homebrew and wine hydrometers are still calibrated at either 59° or 60°F.  Others are calibrated at the professional/ scientific standard of 68°F (20°C.)  The correct temperature should be marked on the stem of the hydrometer.  If not, there's no way of guessing correctly what temperature it's calibrated at.

[Visor]

First, if I’m not mistaken, a hydrometer is calibrated at 60°F, not 68°. 

Some homebrew and wine hydrometers are still calibrated at either 59° or 60°F.  Others are calibrated at the professional/ scientific standard of 68°F (20°C.)  The correct temperature should be marked on the stem of the hydrometer.  If not, there's no way of guessing correctly what temperature it's calibrated at.

 ...Other than plopping it in distilled water at 60 & 68 degrees and seeing what it reads.

[goose]

First, if I’m not mistaken, a hydrometer is calibrated at 60°F, not 68°. 

Some homebrew and wine hydrometers are still calibrated at either 59° or 60°F.  Others are calibrated at the professional/ scientific standard of 68°F (20°C.)  The correct temperature should be marked on the stem of the hydrometer.  If not, there's no way of guessing correctly what temperature it's calibrated at.

My Balling Scale hydrometers (degrees Plato) are calibrated at 68 degrees.  They also have an internal thermometer that tells you how much to adjust the reading in plus or minus tenths of a degree Plato.  Bought them from Weber Scientific and they are great.

[denny]

First, if I’m not mistaken, a hydrometer is calibrated at 60°F, not 68°. 

Some homebrew and wine hydrometers are still calibrated at either 59° or 60°F.  Others are calibrated at the professional/ scientific standard of 68°F (20°C.)  The correct temperature should be marked on the stem of the hydrometer.  If not, there's no way of guessing correctly what temperature it's calibrated at.

My Balling Scale hydrometers (degrees Plato) are calibrated at 68 degrees.  They also have an internal thermometer that tells you how much to adjust the reading in plus or minus tenths of a degree Plato.  Bought them from Weber Scientific and they are great.

Yeah, mine are the same, but they came from Brewing America.

[Jim1960]

Are you sure you boiled off 2 gallons of wort?

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back.  My daughter gave birth to her first child after I posted this so I was off being grandpa...

any way - this is a good question.  I'm pretty sure that was the volume boiled off but I'm going to go back and verify that before my next batch.  I'm pretty sure it was 2 gallons but it's entirely possible that I misread.

[Jim1960]

The first thing you should do with a new system is to measure all of your volumes and losses to create an accurate equipment profile in Beersmith. You can not and will not get accurate estimates without an accurate equipment profile. If you know all of this and have been diligent in setting up your profile you can stop here. Newer brewers or those new to Beersmith might want to read on.

Thanks for the reply and sorry for the delay in getting back.  This is, actually, the first thing I did.  I did two mock brew days with just water to actually try and get an idea where the losses were and how much was actually getting into the kettle and how much was being boiled off.  based on the replies, I'm going to re-do that exercise and verify my numbers.  I would have thought two trial runs would have been sufficient but I really seem to be off somewhere.

A lot of BS2/3 users will reply to that advise by saying, 'but I'm using the equipment profile listed in Beersmith'. Even Brad Smith suggests not relying on those profiles without customizing them to your system and your process. Use them only as a starting point.

A lot of the profiles (and even ingredients) in Beersmith are provided by users and a majority of those equipment profiles were created by somebody else and were tailored to their specific system. Who knows what kind of dip tubes they had in their kettles, what kind of false bottom, the length of their hoses or the type of pumps they used - all affect volume losses. You also don't know the vigor of their boil or at what altitude they brew at which definitely affects boil off rates. All of these little differences and more add up and will make a big difference to your results.

Here is a tutorial that will help you dial in your profile with the end result being software that helps rather than frustrates your brew days.
PS. It says it's for Beersmith 2 but the process is the same for BS3.

https://youtu.be/HwEbjOt8OR8

Thanks for the link.  I actually created my own equipment profile for my system - I don't like using "stock" numbers because I don't know how those numbers were arrived at.  But, I'm going to go back and do another trial run and take more notes and compare..

[BrewBama]

Congratulations!  Being a grandpa is awesome!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[KellerBrauer]

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back.  My daughter gave birth to her first child after I posted this so I was off being grandpa...

Yes, congratulations!  Being a grandparent is like nothing you’ve ever experienced. For me it’s wonderful!

Thanks, Robert, for the correction.  I assumed a hydrometer was a hydrometer.  Never realized there was a difference.  But I suppose, why not?  Thanks!

[Megary]

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back.  My daughter gave birth to her first child after I posted this so I was off being grandpa...

That is a big boil kettle of awesome. Congratulations.

[ynotbrusum]

Congrats - I am expecting to become a grandpa later this year near Christmas, according to my daughter’s stated due date...

Back to your system - watch for channeling on the recirc.  If I run it full out without first setting the grainbed for a few minutes I have run into efficiency issues occasionally.  These are solved by doughing in and letting the first mash rest sit without recircing for 10 minutes or so then opening up slightly for recirc for a couple minutes, then leaving it at partially open setting for all but the last step in the mash (mashout for me).  Just a thought....