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Author Topic: Missing the mark on my FG  (Read 2792 times)

Offline HopDen

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2019, 06:55:34 pm »
So, for the last few batches of beer, I have been overshooting my FG. I used BS3 to formulate my recipes and have brewed these multiple times. I also use a tilt hydrometer and, because I'm pretty anal, I verify with a hydrometer that reads correctly. Calibrated in RO water. I recirculate using a HERMS. I have not changed my processes for these recipes. I use iodophor to sanitize everything. Example 1) FG 1.009 but I actually hit 1.002--- Ex. 2) 1.011 but hit 1.004 Both beers are 7 points over what they should be and what they have consistently been.

Suffice it to say, I am pretty clueless as to what is causing this.

Has anyone had this happen to them and what are some possible causes?

One of the greatest things about BeerSmith is that it enables the brewer to control the software so it reflects results that represent expected results from their equipment and process. The estimated values are reflective of user inputs. Once you enter your equipment profile and brew a few batches, you need to fine tune the profile. If you don't, you will continue to miss your mark, because you haven't properly defined it in the software.

Agreed! I've done that early on. Again, these are tried and true recipes that have consistent results and brewed many times with the expected repeatability.

Offline Bob357

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2019, 07:39:54 am »
Perhaps it's time to dial the profile in again. I'm assuming you've checked the calibration of your measuring instruments.
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Offline goose

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2019, 07:49:16 am »

AFAIK all the evidence to date is that iodophor, like bleach, kills everything, while acid anionic sanitizers are not effective against fungi, yeasts, and spores.  I've seen some pushback against this idea recently on at least one forum but without supporting documentation.  But it is also true that you can't sanitize what's not mechanically clean,  and gav is correct that beerstone deposits can harbor biological material that is inaccessible to standard sanitizer applications.   I regularly use an acid for this purpose.  Identical to but far cheaper by the gallon jug than brewery products is milkstone remover, if you have access to a dairy supply (or stocked by Tractor Supply or Farm and Fleet in certain areas.)  The acid will loosen the oxalate deposits which then can be removed by PBW, etc.   Good to just incorporate it into the protocol from time to time.

Although it is more expensive than milk stone remover (a very good relatively inexpensive product, we used it on the dairy farm where I grew up)  a solution of 1 oz of Star-San in a gallon of water is also good at removing beer stone.   SS Brewtech recommends this for passivating their fermenters.  I have used it in my boil kettle to get rid of beer stone (since I have a lot of it around and want to use it up before moving on to milk stone remover) and it works well.  I let it sit for about 5-10 minutes and can easily scrub off the remnants of beer stone from my kettle and false bottom with a Dobie pad.
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Offline denny

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2019, 08:40:48 am »
Is it outside the manufacture's expected attenuation percentage?

That doesn't really matter in an absolute sense. It's just a way of comparing one yeast to another.  I can get anywhere from 60-90% attenuation with the same yeast depending on wort.
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Offline denny

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2019, 08:42:51 am »
I still think it's an inaccurate software prediction.  That's so common it's hard to overlook it.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline HopDen

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2019, 07:03:42 am »
Perhaps it's time to dial the profile in again. I'm assuming you've checked the calibration of your measuring instruments.

Thats what I'm going to try.

Thanks for the input!

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2019, 08:03:06 pm »

AFAIK all the evidence to date is that iodophor, like bleach, kills everything, while acid anionic sanitizers are not effective against fungi, yeasts, and spores.  I've seen some pushback against this idea recently on at least one forum but without supporting documentation.  But it is also true that you can't sanitize what's not mechanically clean,  and gav is correct that beerstone deposits can harbor biological material that is inaccessible to standard sanitizer applications.   I regularly use an acid for this purpose.  Identical to but far cheaper by the gallon jug than brewery products is milkstone remover, if you have access to a dairy supply (or stocked by Tractor Supply or Farm and Fleet in certain areas.)  The acid will loosen the oxalate deposits which then can be removed by PBW, etc.   Good to just incorporate it into the protocol from time to time.

Although it is more expensive than milk stone remover (a very good relatively inexpensive product, we used it on the dairy farm where I grew up)  a solution of 1 oz of Star-San in a gallon of water is also good at removing beer stone.   SS Brewtech recommends this for passivating their fermenters.  I have used it in my boil kettle to get rid of beer stone (since I have a lot of it around and want to use it up before moving on to milk stone remover) and it works well.  I let it sit for about 5-10 minutes and can easily scrub off the remnants of beer stone from my kettle and false bottom with a Dobie pad.
You can not passivate SS with star San. You need to use Nitric Acid.
5 Star product for passivation is Acid5.
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Offline goose

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2019, 08:34:02 am »

AFAIK all the evidence to date is that iodophor, like bleach, kills everything, while acid anionic sanitizers are not effective against fungi, yeasts, and spores.  I've seen some pushback against this idea recently on at least one forum but without supporting documentation.  But it is also true that you can't sanitize what's not mechanically clean,  and gav is correct that beerstone deposits can harbor biological material that is inaccessible to standard sanitizer applications.   I regularly use an acid for this purpose.  Identical to but far cheaper by the gallon jug than brewery products is milkstone remover, if you have access to a dairy supply (or stocked by Tractor Supply or Farm and Fleet in certain areas.)  The acid will loosen the oxalate deposits which then can be removed by PBW, etc.   Good to just incorporate it into the protocol from time to time.

Although it is more expensive than milk stone remover (a very good relatively inexpensive product, we used it on the dairy farm where I grew up)  a solution of 1 oz of Star-San in a gallon of water is also good at removing beer stone.   SS Brewtech recommends this for passivating their fermenters.  I have used it in my boil kettle to get rid of beer stone (since I have a lot of it around and want to use it up before moving on to milk stone remover) and it works well.  I let it sit for about 5-10 minutes and can easily scrub off the remnants of beer stone from my kettle and false bottom with a Dobie pad.
You can not passivate SS with star San. You need to use Nitric Acid.
5 Star product for passivation is Acid5.

Don't disagree.  Just saying that is what SS Brewtech recommended and that is probably to get rid of the beer stone.  Yes Acid5 is a good passivation agent.  To add, Ashton Lewis (Mr. Wizard) says that stainless will pretty much passivate itself after cleaning.  you just need to get all of the crap off first.
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Offline denny

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2019, 08:50:56 am »

AFAIK all the evidence to date is that iodophor, like bleach, kills everything, while acid anionic sanitizers are not effective against fungi, yeasts, and spores.  I've seen some pushback against this idea recently on at least one forum but without supporting documentation.  But it is also true that you can't sanitize what's not mechanically clean,  and gav is correct that beerstone deposits can harbor biological material that is inaccessible to standard sanitizer applications.   I regularly use an acid for this purpose.  Identical to but far cheaper by the gallon jug than brewery products is milkstone remover, if you have access to a dairy supply (or stocked by Tractor Supply or Farm and Fleet in certain areas.)  The acid will loosen the oxalate deposits which then can be removed by PBW, etc.   Good to just incorporate it into the protocol from time to time.

Although it is more expensive than milk stone remover (a very good relatively inexpensive product, we used it on the dairy farm where I grew up)  a solution of 1 oz of Star-San in a gallon of water is also good at removing beer stone.   SS Brewtech recommends this for passivating their fermenters.  I have used it in my boil kettle to get rid of beer stone (since I have a lot of it around and want to use it up before moving on to milk stone remover) and it works well.  I let it sit for about 5-10 minutes and can easily scrub off the remnants of beer stone from my kettle and false bottom with a Dobie pad.
You can not passivate SS with star San. You need to use Nitric Acid.
5 Star product for passivation is Acid5.

Don't disagree.  Just saying that is what SS Brewtech recommended and that is probably to get rid of the beer stone.  Yes Acid5 is a good passivation agent.  To add, Ashton Lewis (Mr. Wizard) says that stainless will pretty much passivate itself after cleaning.  you just need to get all of the crap off first.

Yeah .  Passive passivation is what I've always done.  I was surprised to hear recently that people were doing more than that.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline gav

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2019, 11:23:35 am »
BTW, iodophor or starsan will not kill wild yeasts...

Are you certain that iodophor does not in fact kill wild yeast? Can you show me something that proves your statement? I've been under the understanding that it in fact does kill wild yeast and mold whereas starsan will not...
My apologies - I stand corrected. After reading responses on this post, I realize I was mis-informed. I might be switching to Iodophor from Starsan based on this info.  :-[
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Offline denny

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2019, 11:55:59 am »
BTW, iodophor or starsan will not kill wild yeasts...

Are you certain that iodophor does not in fact kill wild yeast? Can you show me something that proves your statement? I've been under the understanding that it in fact does kill wild yeast and mold whereas starsan will not...
My apologies - I stand corrected. After reading responses on this post, I realize I was mis-informed. I might be switching to Iodophor from Starsan based on this info.  :-[

A couple years back, I started using Iodophor for probably 90% of my sanitizing.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2019, 06:02:32 pm »
I see a picture of iodine and I can taste it.
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Offline denny

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2019, 08:40:35 am »
I see a picture of iodine and I can taste it.

Fortunately I can't
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline goose

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2019, 10:59:06 am »
I see a picture of iodine and I can taste it.

Yeah, me too!
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Offline denny

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Re: Missing the mark on my FG
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2019, 11:14:12 am »
I see a picture of iodine and I can taste it.

Yeah, me too!

I see a triangle test in the making
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell