Author Topic: Lager or not  (Read 1344 times)

Offline Visor

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2019, 05:41:10 PM »
    I finally received a response from a non salesperson at Mangrove Jacks the other day, according to them M-84 Bohemian is a bottom fermenting S. Cerevisiae, M-76 Bavarian is a bottom fermenting combination of S. Cerevisiae and S. Pastorianus, and M-54 Cali Lager is a combination of bottom and top fermenting S. Cerevisiae. I guess in today's world one can call a thing whatever the hell one wants.
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Offline denny

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2019, 05:55:07 PM »
I guess so, because "top" and "bottom" fermenting are pretty much meaningless.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2019, 05:59:29 PM »
I guess so, because "top" and "bottom" fermenting are pretty much meaningless.

This I totally agree with.  I dislike the terms "top" and "bottom" very much because they mean nothing.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2019, 06:51:07 PM »
I guess so, because "top" and "bottom" fermenting are pretty much meaningless.
Agree
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Offline Visor

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2019, 11:12:55 PM »
    It's not the top or bottom fermenting I was talking about, it's calling Sacc. C "lager" yeast that raises my eyebrows. Words meaning anything we like in the 21st century, established, well defined meanings are so old school and only important to hopelessly prosaic old fuddy duddies.
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Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2019, 11:04:07 PM »
I guess so, because "top" and "bottom" fermenting are pretty much meaningless.
Unfortunately even some new home brew books written by so called experts still use these terms.
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2019, 12:15:52 AM »
I feel better. I never could figure out what those meant after watching what was happening in the fermenter.

Offline Robert

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2019, 12:33:45 AM »
It maybe was more legitimate when all ale brewers always skimmed from the top (if ever that was the case,) and  lager brewers then may have been the only ones exclusively harvesting the settled yeast.  But since the 19th century, ale brewers have selected yeasts that behave like those lager yeasts, settling quickly, first so they could sell bright cask ale without having to age it, and even more so when ale and lager brewers alike started all using the same conical fermenters.   And of course we all know now the genetics show that there is overlap in species, some traditional ale-making yeasts being pastorianus and some traditional lager-making yeasts cerevisiae.  So it's all pretty meaningless,  and I will propose again my own provisional method of defining ale and lager, the "quacks like a duck" method.  If it smells like a lager, and tastes like a lager... you get the idea.  Who cares what the yeast is called, or what it is.  What qualities can you get in a beer you make with it?
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Offline Robert

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2019, 11:33:48 AM »
Rob Stein
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2019, 03:39:25 PM »
The purists who say lager beers can only be fermented with ‘lager yeast’ must be having a tough go with all this new revelation.


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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2019, 03:45:07 PM »
Very timely, new information posted in this thread on HBT.  https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/interesting-genome-sequencing-of-some-yeasts.670056/

THANK YOU!  More goodies to keep me busy in my (sorely lacking) spare time this week!

The purists who say lager beers can only be fermented with ‘lager yeast’ must be having a tough go with all this new revelation.

Indeed, some (like Vale) gonna dig in the grumpy heels all the deeper.
Dave

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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2019, 12:58:59 PM »
That thread had more info today. Pretty cool stuff.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2019, 12:59:11 PM »
That thread had more info today. Pretty cool stuff.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2019, 01:27:21 PM »
That thread had more info today. Pretty cool stuff.
Indeed.  Going to be worth following closely.
Rob Stein
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: Lager or not
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2019, 02:11:46 PM »
I find this information so much easier to search and read than the previous effort.

For example, it looks like WLP830, WY2124 (34/70) is a Saccharomyces cerevisiae x Saccharomyces eubayanus hybrid.


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