[Megary]

It appears that the general consensus for a Saison is to keep it low.  Most recommendations and recipes that I see usually fall in the 146-151 range.  Seems reasonable; keep it low, keep it highly fermentable, keep it dry.

Then I read where the gold medal recipe at this year's NHC in category 20 -Saison- mashed at 156.  The brewer's notes state "The higher temperature is for extra body to compensate for the low ABV and high attenuation of the saison yeast." (Zymurgy, Sept. Oct. 2019. P75).  The yeast used was 1 package of WLP565 Belgian Saison (no starter) in a 3 gallon batch.  Grain bill was approximately 64% Pilsner, 18% rye malt, 18% red wheat malt.  Now I'm not doubting the skills of the brewer and the fermentation schedule clearly got the beer where it needed to go (it won a gold medal!), but every three words in that quote above opened up another question for me.  I'm just not asking those specific questions here. 

I realize not all recipes, grain bills and yeasts are the same. But does anyone mash their Saison that high?  I haven't yet found another recipe even close to 156.

[dmtaylor]

I've never seen it mashed that warm like that before, but it's interesting to think about.  It could help keep a small bit of body in an otherwise very dry beer.  I like the idea.

Personally, I prefer to control attenuation and body more through: 1) yeast selection, and 2) mash TIME, rather than mash temperature.  But if it works, or for experimentation purposes, I say yeah, go for it.  Cool.

[ulander6206]

My grain bill is very similar to yours. I use Belle Saison yeast and mash low. For me, the rye and wheat malts will add just a bit of body to avoid being thin.

[BrewBama]

All else being equal, I doubt that I could even tell a difference in a beer mashed at 150*F vs a beer mashed at 156*F.

I do find the beers that win in competitions don’t necessarily follow conventional thought. For example; the 2018 English Dark Mild with German hops and Cali Common yeast. The judges have no idea how a brewer got from A to Z.


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[goose]

My saison grain bill is a quite bit different: 63% Pils, 19% Vienna, 9% wheat, 5% Honey, and around 2% acid malt to adjust mash pH to proper range. (I sometimes tend to be a bit more complex on my grain bills but it seems to work for me to give me the flavors I am looking for).  I always mash mine at 148 degrees to give the characteristic dry finish for the style and use the specialty malts for the body and fruitiness.  I also use 3711 as my standard yeast for the beer since it does not have the tendency to peter out halfway during fermentation like WLP-565 tends to do.  The beer finishes at around 1 degree Plato with this yeast in about 7 to 10 days.

My take is that mashing warmer tends to make the saison a bit sweet for the style, but everyone's palate is different.  That said, it is interesting to see different takes on the "standard convention" for various styles.

[narvin]

Belgian brewers like a step mash, and dupont does a continuous increase from 120(?) to 160 or so, I think.  Check Farmhouse Ales for the details.

Anyway, I think the idea is to get fermentability along with some long chain dextrines as well.  I really can't say if the result is that much different than a single infusion, though.

[denny]

All else being equal, I doubt that I could even tell a difference in a beer mashed at 150*F vs a beer mashed at 156*F.

I do find the beers that win in competitions don’t necessarily follow conventional thought. For example; the 2018 English Dark Mild with German hops and Cali Common yeast. The judges have no idea how a brewer got from A to Z.


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This^^^^^.  Most malt has so much diastatic power these days that mash temp doesn't make much difference unless you make large changes.  And there's some great info about Saison here.  https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/guide-saisons-and-saison-yeasts

[majorvices]

If you use a strain like Belle Saison, it's not really gonna matter that much. That strain is diastaticus (so is WY3711) and it is gonna dry out until nearly everything is gone.

[coolman26]

All else being equal, I doubt that I could even tell a difference in a beer mashed at 150*F vs a beer mashed at 156*F.

I do find the beers that win in competitions don’t necessarily follow conventional thought. For example; the 2018 English Dark Mild with German hops and Cali Common yeast. The judges have no idea how a brewer got from A to Z.


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This^^^^^.  Most malt has so much diastatic power these days that mash temp doesn't make much difference unless you make large changes.  And there's some great info about Saison here.  https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/guide-saisons-and-saison-yeasts

Agree 100%, that said, I mash mine at 149 for 90 minutes and still use 565. I’ve not had the stall, not sure why I haven’t. I do love a good Saison.


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