Author Topic: water profiles  (Read 1522 times)

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: water profiles
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2021, 01:01:04 AM »
Dave Dave Dave,

You are SO wrong. You ... is rather uninformed.

Meh... O.K.

RDWHAHB - Relax, Dave’s Water Has An Honorable Beer taste....

Now THAT tastes GOOD!  Relaxation is what I'm all about.  Except when I'm not.

Cheers all.  :)
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline BrewBama

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water profiles
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2021, 01:52:58 AM »
I had a buddy in the Army — Dave Taylor. We were in a $#!+ hole bar in Korea ~’83. Another drunk buddy went up the the biggest dude in the place and picked a fight. Needless to say he got his butt kicked.

Dave decides he gonna be all chivalrous and goes out and tells the dude that’s his friend and he’s not going to allow him just to kick his butt and walk off. Problem is that dude was a black belt in karate. He kicked Dave twice in the head once in the gut before he finished his sentence. Bop, Bop, Bop.

Dave, doubled over, told the dude, “Thank You”.


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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: water profiles
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2021, 02:57:52 AM »
Christmas 1983:

Dave

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Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: water profiles
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2021, 03:50:42 PM »
The "ratio" is more meaningless than the actual amounts of salts in ppm.

If salt additions confuse you or are complicated for you, and your beer is fine anyway, then it's usually safe to ignore water altogether and not worry about it at all.  When you see fancy water specifications or salt additions in a recipe, just ignore them.  Millions of homebrewers make great beer without much if any thought about water.  A lot of folks hate hearing this but it's the honest truth.  Now, if you're experiencing problems with your beer, then it's something to look into.  But otherwise... there are way more important things.

I just had a long conversation with the head chemist, at the City Lab / Water Treatment Facility. It turns out that Fritz is also a home beer brewer. He said that the local water profile is actually quite forgiving for many beer styles. He also noted that some added hardness might be appropriate for a Robust Porter, or a Stout.

My neighbor / brewing friend says my beers are very, very good ("Light years ahead of other brewers"), without any treatment of the water supply. And Dave has sampled many home brew beers! He also worked in a Craft Brewery in Austin Texas, before moving to the North Texas area.

We will get the results of our 8 entries in the Bluebonnet Brewoff 2021 next month. Certainly if the water profile impacted the beer in a negative fashion, the BJCP judges will pick up on it, and make notes on the score sheet.

I will experiment a bit going forward, to see what if any improvement is noticed with treated water.

But since our beers taste pretty darn good as is, I'm not going to get bent out of shape over this.

edit: Do not interpret this as bragging about my beer. The point is great beer can be brewed by anyone, with local water, and you do not have to stress out over the actual chemical composition. After all...it's beer.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 03:53:53 PM by TXFlyGuy »
Bluebonnet Brewoff 2021 Winner!

Munich Helles - 1st Place
Oktoberfest   - 1st Place
English Porter - 3rd Place

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: water profiles
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2021, 03:57:09 PM »
The "ratio" is more meaningless than the actual amounts of salts in ppm.

If salt additions confuse you or are complicated for you, and your beer is fine anyway, then it's usually safe to ignore water altogether and not worry about it at all.  When you see fancy water specifications or salt additions in a recipe, just ignore them.  Millions of homebrewers make great beer without much if any thought about water.  A lot of folks hate hearing this but it's the honest truth.  Now, if you're experiencing problems with your beer, then it's something to look into.  But otherwise... there are way more important things.

I just had a long conversation with the head chemist, at the City Lab / Water Treatment Facility. It turns out that Fritz is also a home beer brewer. He said that the local water profile is actually quite forgiving for many beer styles. He also noted that some added hardness might be appropriate for a Robust Porter, or a Stout.

My neighbor / brewing friend says my beers are very, very good ("Light years ahead of other brewers"), without any treatment of the water supply. And Dave has sampled many home brew beers! He also worked in a Craft Brewery in Austin Texas, before moving to the North Texas area.

We will get the results of our 8 entries in the Bluebonnet Brewoff 2021 next month. Certainly if the water profile impacted the beer in a negative fashion, the BJCP judges will pick up on it, and make notes on the score sheet.

I will experiment a bit going forward, to see what if any improvement is noticed with treated water.

But since our beers taste pretty darn good as is, I'm not going to get bent out of shape over this.

edit: Do not interpret this as bragging about my beer. The point is great beer can be brewed by anyone, with local water, and you do not have to stress out over the actual chemical composition. After all...it's beer.

Your water is pretty good. Beers like a German Pils will benefit by dropping the bicarbonate.
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Offline Saccharomyces

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Re: water profiles
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2021, 04:11:24 PM »
But since our beers taste pretty darn good as is, I'm not going to get bent out of shape over this.

That is a healthy way to look at brewing.  I am a ranked BJCP judge and what I have found is that the winning beers are usually brewed on the edge of the style.  There is little doubt that these beers are good, but one is usually enough.  I personally do not want to brew beers where one is enough.  Beer is about socializing with good friends. Granted, COVID has made this ritual challenging, but I have faith.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: water profiles
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2021, 04:13:38 PM »
But since our beers taste pretty darn good as is, I'm not going to get bent out of shape over this.

That is a healthy way to look at brewing.  I am a ranked BJCP judge and what I have found is that the winning beers are usually brewed on the edge of the style.  There is little doubt that these beers are good, but one is usually enough.  I personally do not want to brew beers where one is enough.  Beer is about socializing with good friends. Granted, COVID has made this ritual challenging, but I have faith.
+1
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: water profiles
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2021, 05:22:44 PM »

I love your post above, @TXFlyGuy.  However, I could not help but chuckle at this part:

Certainly if the water profile impacted the beer in a negative fashion, the BJCP judges will pick up on it, and make notes on the score sheet.

That there is funny.  Just something about it.  I mean, yeah, if the water is horrible, hopefully the judges can help with that.  But if your water is even just kind of okay but not really "bad" or "negative"...... the palate of even the best judges just isn't that good.  I just don't believe it.

Cheers again all.
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline erockrph

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Re: water profiles
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2021, 05:57:05 PM »

I love your post above, @TXFlyGuy.  However, I could not help but chuckle at this part:

Certainly if the water profile impacted the beer in a negative fashion, the BJCP judges will pick up on it, and make notes on the score sheet.

That there is funny.  Just something about it.  I mean, yeah, if the water is horrible, hopefully the judges can help with that.  But if your water is even just kind of okay but not really "bad" or "negative"...... the palate of even the best judges just isn't that good.  I just don't believe it.

Cheers again all.
To expand a little, even if a judge picks up something in your beer that is related to your brewing water, they may not pick out the water as the cause (or the solution, which is a better way to think about it). For example of you submit a stout that was mashed at a pH of 5.2, you might see comments about harsh or acrid flavors. But not many judges would instantly jump at a low pH being the cause.

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Offline RC

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Re: water profiles
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2021, 06:28:25 PM »

the palate of even the best judges just isn't that good.


+1!!!!

Offline denny

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Re: water profiles
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2021, 06:30:41 PM »

I love your post above, @TXFlyGuy.  However, I could not help but chuckle at this part:

Certainly if the water profile impacted the beer in a negative fashion, the BJCP judges will pick up on it, and make notes on the score sheet.

That there is funny.  Just something about it.  I mean, yeah, if the water is horrible, hopefully the judges can help with that.  But if your water is even just kind of okay but not really "bad" or "negative"...... the palate of even the best judges just isn't that good.  I just don't believe it.

Cheers again all.

Obviously you haven't had a lot of experience with good BJCP judges.  They're out there.  Just because you haven't had experience with them is no reason to dismiss them all.
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Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: water profiles
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2021, 08:04:53 PM »

I love your post above, @TXFlyGuy.  However, I could not help but chuckle at this part:

Certainly if the water profile impacted the beer in a negative fashion, the BJCP judges will pick up on it, and make notes on the score sheet.

That there is funny.  Just something about it.  I mean, yeah, if the water is horrible, hopefully the judges can help with that.  But if your water is even just kind of okay but not really "bad" or "negative"...... the palate of even the best judges just isn't that good.  I just don't believe it.

Cheers again all.

Obviously you haven't had a lot of experience with good BJCP judges.  They're out there.  Just because you haven't had experience with them is no reason to dismiss them all.

My experience is limited, having entered the Bluebonnet only one time before.
It was my thought that a good, experienced BJCP judge would pick up on anything that would be “off” in the profile. That includes the impact of the brewing water.

I’m hoping Denny is right, and there are good judges at this event!
Bluebonnet Brewoff 2021 Winner!

Munich Helles - 1st Place
Oktoberfest   - 1st Place
English Porter - 3rd Place

Offline BrewBama

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Re: water profiles
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2021, 01:10:11 PM »
The Mad Fermentationist says this about judge feedback, “Homebrew judges’ primary role is to pick the best beers, feedback is secondary. Judges have to work relatively quickly, describing what they see, taste, feel, and smell within only a few minutes. Beers are often too cold, drank out of small plastic cups, and consumed in a setting not conducive to enjoyment. If flaws are detected it is nearly impossible to give constructive feedback, because the judge doen’t know anything about your recipe or process. If you want constructive feedback, share your beer with a BJCP judge or experienced brewer at a homebrew club meeting. That way you can talk about your process and what you might want to tweak.

On the other hand, competitions are a great place to get blind feedback on what you think are excellent beers. Tasting multiple beers of the same style next to each other allows judges to really tease out the subtle differences in a way impossible at a homebrew club meeting where you might sample 15 beers of 15 different styles.”


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Offline TXFlyGuy

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Re: water profiles
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2021, 02:27:24 PM »
The Mad Fermentationist says this about judge feedback, “Homebrew judges’ primary role is to pick the best beers, feedback is secondary. Judges have to work relatively quickly, describing what they see, taste, feel, and smell within only a few minutes. Beers are often too cold, drank out of small plastic cups, and consumed in a setting not conducive to enjoyment. If flaws are detected it is nearly impossible to give constructive feedback, because the judge doen’t know anything about your recipe or process. If you want constructive feedback, share your beer with a BJCP judge or experienced brewer at a homebrew club meeting. That way you can talk about your process and what you might want to tweak.

On the other hand, competitions are a great place to get blind feedback on what you think are excellent beers. Tasting multiple beers of the same style next to each other allows judges to really tease out the subtle differences in a way impossible at a homebrew club meeting where you might sample 15 beers of 15 different styles.”


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Now I'm confused. First it says there is not enough time to support a critical review. Then it says competitions are a great way to get feedback.

From a purely scientific / human objective standpoint, sensory adaptation will cloud the judges decision making after a period of time. After tasting the 8th IPA, all of them being competition worthy.....

In the end as we are brewers with some education and experience, we are able to be critical in the appraisal of the beers we brew. Yes, I have literally dumped 5 gallons before, as it did not meet the standards I was aiming for.

Each of us should learn to be our most critical consumer of our own beer. If we brew an outstanding Pils or Porter, there should be no hesitation to say so. And if we brew a beer that is off for some reason, or just does not taste the way we wanted, that needs to be known as well.

But we know it starts with water, good water.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2021, 02:31:21 PM by TXFlyGuy »
Bluebonnet Brewoff 2021 Winner!

Munich Helles - 1st Place
Oktoberfest   - 1st Place
English Porter - 3rd Place

Offline BrewBama

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Re: water profiles
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2021, 03:30:39 PM »
Sorry to muddy the water for you .

I hope your beers do well in the Bluebonnet. Report back to tell us what feedback you received.

Cheers!


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