[goose]

This has been mentioned before but here is what I use for every beer.  Always have short lag times.  Way cheaper than O2 and a stone.

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[denny]

It's been so long since I've aerated I honestly can't remember when I did it last.

If you brew a lot of lagers at or below 50f you will know if you forgot to oxygenate properly. Even if you pitch at 2.5 without the O2, the lag is unbearably long. With the aeration I consistently see active fermentation in under 5 hours @46f, with a little zinc in there as well, closer to three.

Currently have one fermenting at 48F.  Lallemand Diamond Lager yeast, no aeration.

[Kevin]

I don't concern myself about short or long lag times. The lag time is just a normal part of the yeasts growth cycle. It would be inaccurate to use lag time as an indicator of yeast health or vitality.

[denny]

I don't concern myself about short or long lag times. The lag time is just a normal part of the yeasts growth cycle. It would be inaccurate to use lag time as an indicator of yeast health or vitality.

EXACTLY!

[denny]

This has been mentioned before but here is what I use for every beer.  Always have short lag times.  Way cheaper than O2 and a stone.

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Years ago I used one of those.  Then I split a batch and compared using the venture to doing nothing.  Same result.

[BrewBama]

...but it would be equally inaccurate to discard lag time as one element — in combination with others — as an indication of yeast health and vitality.

While certainly a step in the yeast lifecycle, to suggest lag time is completely irrelevant gives an incomplete picture. In consideration of the strain, long lag times could be an indication of anemic growth and the reason(s) should be investigated.

Lag time, fermentation vigor, attenuation, smells and flavors (among others?) are all indicators used in combination to paint the complete picture of yeast health and vitality.


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[Carson B]

Pitching large amounts of healthy yeast reduces or eliminates the need for aeration

I'm in this camp. I stopped aeration some time ago and focus mainly on having healthy, active yeast that are ready to go to war.

When you say "active", what exactly do you mean? I always make starters, crash them overnight or during the brewday, then decant and pitch once it's back up to pitching temperature. I never pitch the full starter, and like i said, I pitch after crashing, which would make me think the yeast isn't exactly active even though there is plenty of it and it's healthy. In my head, an active yeast pitch is a starter coming straight from the stir plate that is in active fermentation.

[Robert]

...but it would be equally inaccurate to discard lag time as one element — in combination with others — as an indication of yeast health and vitality.

While certainly a step in the yeast lifecycle, to suggest lag time is completely irrelevant gives an incomplete picture. In consideration of the strain, long lag times could be an indication of anemic growth and the reason(s) should be investigated.

Lag time, fermentation vigor, attenuation, smells and flavors (among others?) are all indicators used in combination to paint the complete picture of yeast health and vitality.


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+1

[denny]

Pitching large amounts of healthy yeast reduces or eliminates the need for aeration

I'm in this camp. I stopped aeration some time ago and focus mainly on having healthy, active yeast that are ready to go to war.

When you say "active", what exactly do you mean? I always make starters, crash them overnight or during the brewday, then decant and pitch once it's back up to pitching temperature. I never pitch the full starter, and like i said, I pitch after crashing, which would make me think the yeast isn't exactly active even though there is plenty of it and it's healthy. In my head, an active yeast pitch is a starter coming straight from the stir plate that is in active fermentation.

Actively fermenting, but no stir plate.  I've come to the conclusion yeast vitality is much more important than cell count.  https://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/old-dognew-tricks

[Bilsch]

If you brew a lot of lagers at or below 50f you will know if you forgot to oxygenate properly. Even if you pitch at 2.5 without the O2, the lag is unbearably long. With the aeration I consistently see active fermentation in under 5 hours @46f, with a little zinc in there as well, closer to three.

Currently have one fermenting at 48F.  Lallemand Diamond Lager yeast, no aeration.

OK you got me there. I should have said: "If you brew a lot of lagers at or below 50f with liquid yeast.."

[Bilsch]

It would be inaccurate to use lag time as an indicator of yeast health or vitality.

I'm not sure how one can make this statement.
A short lag time is THE indicator of yeast health and vitality and that you did your job properly as a brewer setting up a good environment for them.

[Visor]

It would be inaccurate to use lag time as an indicator of yeast health or vitality.

I'm not sure how one can make this statement.
A short lag time is THE indicator of yeast health and vitality and that you did your job properly as a brewer setting up a good environment for them.

   If you over pitch enough, even relatively unhealthy yeast can have a short lag time.

[goose]

Pitching large amounts of healthy yeast reduces or eliminates the need for aeration

I'm in this camp. I stopped aeration some time ago and focus mainly on having healthy, active yeast that are ready to go to war.

When you say "active", what exactly do you mean? I always make starters, crash them overnight or during the brewday, then decant and pitch once it's back up to pitching temperature. I never pitch the full starter, and like i said, I pitch after crashing, which would make me think the yeast isn't exactly active even though there is plenty of it and it's healthy. In my head, an active yeast pitch is a starter coming straight from the stir plate that is in active fermentation.

There are definitely two schools of thought on pitching starters (decanting the liquid off the yeast after crashing, or pitching the whole starter) and neither one is better than the other IMHO.   I always pitch the whole starter into my beer because I am a bit lazy about the extra step of refrigerating the starter and decanting off the liquid.  Plus the yeast is already hot-to-trot in the starter medium and there are still some yeast cells in suspension, so why not use them all.  I once posed this question at a long past Homebrew Con and the speaker answered by saying he would probably jut pitch the whole thing.  I have decanted the liquid off the yeast cake in the past, added cooled wort from the brew day, and put the flask back on the stir plate while filling the fermenter.  I saw no difference from what I now do and it is one less step I have to consider.

I almost always under-pitch a little bit and have never had any adverse problems.  That said, I also agree with Denny's comments when he quoted Chris White telling him that homebrewers are overly concerned with yeast counts.

[Visor]

   I wonder how many homebrewers actually have the ability to count yeast . If you're not counting, you're guessing.

[denny]

   I wonder how many homebrewers actually have the ability to count yeast . If you're not counting, you're guessing.

Homebrewers are too hung up on numbers to quote my friend Chris White.