Author Topic: Bru'n water - IIPA ... am I doing it right??  (Read 173 times)

Offline JacobT

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Bru'n water - IIPA ... am I doing it right??
« on: November 07, 2019, 04:09:50 PM »
Hi Guys
Very new to brewing here. My next brew is planned to be a Pliny the Elder clone and I wanted to have a closer look at the water chemistry.

So I downloaded a copy of the free version of Bru'n water and I think I have i figured out (Famous last words right ;-) )
Basically, I'm hoping some of you guys will take the time to check if the Water adjustment tab looks sensible, or if I'm doing something wrong/sub-optimal.
You should be able to see the Bru'n water spreadsheet https://www.dropbox.com/s/w6jcn8pf07q4br5/Brun%20Water%201.24%20-%20Pliny%20the%20Elde.xls?dl=0
Thanks
Jacob

Offline denny

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Re: Bru'n water - IIPA ... am I doing it right??
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2019, 04:37:19 PM »
Your sulfate is a lot higher than I usually go.
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Offline JacobT

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Re: Bru'n water - IIPA ... am I doing it right??
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2019, 04:43:20 PM »
Your sulfate is a lot higher than I usually go.
Hi Denny
I just went with the Pale Ale Profile... should i use a different one?
thanks

Offline denny

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Re: Bru'n water - IIPA ... am I doing it right??
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2019, 04:52:36 PM »
Your sulfate is a lot higher than I usually go.
Hi Denny
I just went with the Pale Ale Profile... should i use a different one?
thanks

Nope, not necessarily. Give it a try and see how you like it.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline a10t2

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Re: Bru'n water - IIPA ... am I doing it right??
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2019, 05:12:37 PM »
When dealing with that much alkalinity I've always diluted rather than using acid additions. I don't know if there's anything wrong with that approach but diluting would also give you the option of not needed so much gypsum if you wanted to use less.
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Offline denny

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Re: Bru'n water - IIPA ... am I doing it right??
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2019, 06:06:28 PM »
When dealing with that much alkalinity I've always diluted rather than using acid additions. I don't know if there's anything wrong with that approach but diluting would also give you the option of not needed so much gypsum if you wanted to use less.

My thoughts exactly, Sean.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

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Offline JacobT

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Re: Bru'n water - IIPA ... am I doing it right??
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2019, 06:48:03 PM »
When dealing with that much alkalinity I've always diluted rather than using acid additions. I don't know if there's anything wrong with that approach but diluting would also give you the option of not needed so much gypsum if you wanted to use less.
Hmm good to know, but unfortunately not feasible for me atm. :-(

Googling Sulfate (and chloride) a bit and the first hits also talk about the ratio between the two. So would something like ~150ppm sulfate and ~50ppm chloride make more sense?

Thanks for the feedback guys!

Offline EnkAMania

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Re: Bru'n water - IIPA ... am I doing it right??
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2019, 08:43:50 PM »
I use the pale ale profile a lot and enjoy the results.
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Offline a10t2

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Re: Bru'n water - IIPA ... am I doing it right??
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2019, 05:16:02 PM »
Googling Sulfate (and chloride) a bit and the first hits also talk about the ratio between the two. So would something like ~150ppm sulfate and ~50ppm chloride make more sense?

The ratio doesn't matter at all; you need to know both numbers. FWIW, 150/50 is about where my pale ales end up.
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Offline Robert

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Re: Bru'n water - IIPA ... am I doing it right??
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2019, 05:34:06 PM »
Googling Sulfate (and chloride) a bit and the first hits also talk about the ratio between the two. So would something like ~150ppm sulfate and ~50ppm chloride make more sense?

The ratio doesn't matter at all; you need to know both numbers. FWIW, 150/50 is about where my pale ales end up.
Yeah, this ratio, wherever it came from, has been way over obsessed about by homebrewers.   Remember that 3:1 you have there isn't magic.  If it was 3ppm sulfate  and 1 ppm chloride you wouldn't notice either.  If it was 600ppm and 200ppm the beer would be undrinkable because of either one.  What you need to learn is what level of each individual ion is the minimum taste threshold and the maximum tolerable limit, and what flavor effect each has.  Then choose the level of each ion individually to achieve the degree of that effect you want to perceive in a given beer.
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Offline JacobT

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Re: Bru'n water - IIPA ... am I doing it right??
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2019, 07:24:02 PM »
Googling Sulfate (and chloride) a bit and the first hits also talk about the ratio between the two. So would something like ~150ppm sulfate and ~50ppm chloride make more sense?

The ratio doesn't matter at all; you need to know both numbers. FWIW, 150/50 is about where my pale ales end up.
Yeah, this ratio, wherever it came from, has been way over obsessed about by homebrewers.   Remember that 3:1 you have there isn't magic.  If it was 3ppm sulfate  and 1 ppm chloride you wouldn't notice either.  If it was 600ppm and 200ppm the beer would be undrinkable because of either one.  What you need to learn is what level of each individual ion is the minimum taste threshold and the maximum tolerable limit, and what flavor effect each has.  Then choose the level of each ion individually to achieve the degree of that effect you want to perceive in a given beer.
Interesting about the ratio. I have enough of a chemistry education to know that 1:3 and 200:600 will yield different results.
But if possible could you guys give hints to starting points of sulfate and chloride (perhaps what you would use in a rather hoppy beer such as pliny the elder) so I don't have to itterrate from really low to really high before I hit the sweet spot. Is 150/50 a good start?

PS I take it that I have not majorly done anything wrong in bru'n water since this topic quickly turned to concentrations rather than actual usage of the spreadsheet.

Once again thanks for your help

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Offline Robert

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Re: Bru'n water - IIPA ... am I doing it right??
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2019, 07:27:49 PM »
150 sulfate and 50 chloride sounds like a good baseline for a hoppy ale.
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

Offline JacobT

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Re: Bru'n water - IIPA ... am I doing it right??
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2019, 07:29:20 PM »
150 sulfate and 50 chloride sounds like a good baseline for a hoppy ale.
Cool thanks

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