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Author Topic: Hop schedule  (Read 2157 times)

Offline denny

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Re: Hop schedule
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2019, 11:38:28 am »
The reason FWH is so surprisingly effective at contributing flavor and aroma, and equally so on any scale system, is that the long steep allows the hydrocarbons to be converted to permanently soluble forms before they can be driven off, still in more volatile form, by the boil.  This takes significant time on heat...

Roughly how many minutes are in your long steep?   If I were to try this, would I initially target going from FWH temperature (150F? 165F?) to boil in 10 minutes? 20? 30?

I'd say it takes me 20-30 min. from the time I add them until I get to a boil. I don't feel like the exact time is important
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Offline Robert

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Re: Hop schedule
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2019, 12:34:13 pm »
Lautering takes me at least an hour, and then maybe another 20 minutes to boiling. So up to 90 minutes?  Commercial breweries can expect anywhere from 2-3 hours.  But Denny may be right, I don't have any firm answer on just what the minimum time required is.  I would expect that the benefits of FWH over a simple start of boil addition would be apparent even if you are doing no sparge BIAB with a short ramp to boil.  But I don't have numbers.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Hop schedule
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2019, 12:59:16 pm »
A new to me hop? I use Vinny Cilurzo's "Hop 2 It", which has a set number of additions at set times, but the bittering charge is adjusted up/down to give a 40IBU (IIRC) calculation.

Actually, that's kinda what I do.  I know I want FWH and maybe a later addition, so after eeeeing what I get from those I adjust the 60 addition to the IBU goal.
So it sounds like you guys kinda do what I do WRT Tinseth or any other "calculations"  -- don't believe the actual numbers they generate, just take them as a tool for consistently portioning out the hop additions in recipes, and  based on experience an indication of how much bitterness we'll perceive in our own beer?

I get close enough.
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Offline denny

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Re: Hop schedule
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2019, 01:22:49 pm »
A new to me hop? I use Vinny Cilurzo's "Hop 2 It", which has a set number of additions at set times, but the bittering charge is adjusted up/down to give a 40IBU (IIRC) calculation.

Actually, that's kinda what I do.  I know I want FWH and maybe a later addition, so after eeeeing what I get from those I adjust the 60 addition to the IBU goal.
So it sounds like you guys kinda do what I do WRT Tinseth or any other "calculations"  -- don't believe the actual numbers they generate, just take them as a tool for consistently portioning out the hop additions in recipes, and  based on experience an indication of how much bitterness we'll perceive in our own beer?

I get close enough.

Yep.  I use SNPA as a tastebud calibration.  Then I ballpark what my beer might be.  Used to get them tested, but I don't care that6 much any more.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Robert

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Re: Hop schedule
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2019, 01:24:14 pm »
Rob Stein
Akron, Ohio

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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Hop schedule
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2019, 01:57:16 pm »


I've seen many a German manufactured brewing system that has three vessels that are loaded with hop pellets, and those are added at programed times.



Here is my thinking on why homebrewers shouldn't expect to get the same results from the same hop schedule a commercial brewer uses, and why, in particular, hop additions made *during the boil*  (i.e. other than FWH and whirlpool) are particularly ineffective for us (me.)

The reason FWH is so surprisingly effective at contributing flavor and aroma, and equally so on any scale system, is that the long steep allows the hydrocarbons to be converted to permanently soluble forms before they can be driven off, still in more volatile form, by the boil.  This takes significant time on heat, but the same would apply in the whirlpool.  With boil additions in a homebrew setting, with a very large surface area to volume, there is insufficient time for this solubilization to occur before the circulating action of the boil allows the volatiles to be evaporated at the surface.  So those 30, 10, 5, etc. additions are not very effective for adding flavor and aroma, only (inefficiently) contributing to bitterness.  On a commercial system, with a high volume to surface area (even a few-barrels-sized rig will make an enormous difference,) some solubilization of oils will occur before the entire wort volume is exposed at the surface, though these additions will still not be as effective or efficient at either bittering or adding flavor and aroma as other possible schemes. (Stan has written about some German brewers who are going with FWH and whirlpool with no middle additions.) 

Therefore, no matter what larger breweries may be doing, a homebrewer is probably best advised to skip the middle and late hopping and just use FWH and knockout/ whirlpool additions, with a nice, efficient, 60 minute addition if additional bittering is  needed, and apportioning those additions so as to achieve the desired result in balance of bitterness, flavor, and aroma.

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Offline goose

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Re: Hop schedule
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2019, 02:09:04 pm »
FWIW, when I make my black IPA, I do a FWH addition then add no other hop additions before the last 30 minutes.    I do a 30 and 10 minute additions and get the IBU's I am looking for.   Must be doing something right, the black IPA scored a 41 in a competition last weekend and took a silver.

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