[Lazy Ant Brewing]

Just bought 4 used kegs that probably haven't been used or cleaned in a year or more.  I've them outside, rinsed with cold water, now  disassembled and soaking with a hot solution of PBW, but I'm pondering the question would it be better to let them soak longer and rinse with cold water or soak for a lesser time and rinse with the hotter water?

Darkness is on the way and I need to drain the hoses supplying the cold water because we will have a hard freeze tonight.

Thanks in advance for your advice>

[Robert]

It probably works a little better with a hot rinse.  But it really ought to be followed with an acid rinse to really get things squeaky clean, then the temperature of the rinse doesn't matter so much.  You could use any acid cleaner or sanitizer or just a white vinegar solution.   Cycle is hot PBW --> water rinse --> acid rinse --> water rinse.  Should be no residue of anything left after that.  I use this sequence every time I mean anything.

[Lazy Ant Brewing]

Thanks,

I'm planning on the water rinse, than star san, than water again.  They are quite dirty.

[Robert]

It probably works a little better with a hot rinse.  But it really ought to be followed with an acid rinse to really get things squeaky clean, then the temperature of the rinse doesn't matter so much.  You could use any acid cleaner or sanitizer or just a white vinegar solution.   Cycle is hot PBW --> water rinse --> acid rinse --> water rinse.  Should be no residue of anything left after that.  I use this sequence every time I clean anything.

(Edited typo)

[denny]

Thanks,

I'm planning on the water rinse, than star san, than water again.  They are quite dirty.

The temp of the rinse likely makes no difference to the length of soak IME.  And what's the purpose of StarSan if you aren't actually sanitizing?

[Robert]

And what's the purpose of StarSan if you aren't actually sanitizing?

If it's the acid product that's on hand, it's good as an acid rinse.  I personally use dairy milkstone remover as the acid cleaner and rinse in my brewery, because it's dirt cheap compared to phosphoric acid + surfactant products of identical composition marketed as brewing supplies, but Star San also contains phosphoric acid and surfactants.  Iodophor is my sanitizer, but it needs to be preceded by an acid rinse after alkaline cleaners anyway, as any alkaline residue will affect its effectiveness.  Again, white vinegar will work as a rinse too, but lacking a surfactant, it may be less effective, requiring a full soak.

[denny]

And what's the purpose of StarSan if you aren't actually sanitizing?

If it's the acid product that's on hand, it's good as an acid rinse.  I personally use dairy milkstone remover as the acid cleaner and rinse in my brewery, because it's dirt cheap compared to phosphoric acid + surfactant products of identical composition marketed as brewing supplies, but Star San also contains phosphoric acid and surfactants.  Iodophor is my sanitizer, but it needs to be preceded by an acid rinse after alkaline cleaners anyway, as any alkaline residue will affect its effectiveness.  Again, white vinegar will work as a rinse too, but lacking a surfactant, it may be less effective, requiring a full soak.

In my opinion and experience, that's unnecessary overkill.  Simplify...get rid of stuff that doesn't really matter.  Reality often astonishes theory.

[Robert]

And what's the purpose of StarSan if you aren't actually sanitizing?

If it's the acid product that's on hand, it's good as an acid rinse.  I personally use dairy milkstone remover as the acid cleaner and rinse in my brewery, because it's dirt cheap compared to phosphoric acid + surfactant products of identical composition marketed as brewing supplies, but Star San also contains phosphoric acid and surfactants.  Iodophor is my sanitizer, but it needs to be preceded by an acid rinse after alkaline cleaners anyway, as any alkaline residue will affect its effectiveness.  Again, white vinegar will work as a rinse too, but lacking a surfactant, it may be less effective, requiring a full soak.

In my opinion and experience, that's unnecessary overkill.  Simplify...get rid of stuff that doesn't really matter.  Reality often astonishes theory.

My routine is based on experience.  Others may find things work differently, probably a lot depends on your water.  And when your guy from the manufacturer of BTF iodophor joined us a while back, he mentioned the part about alkaline cleaner residue and iodophor, so I believed him.

[denny]

And what's the purpose of StarSan if you aren't actually sanitizing?

If it's the acid product that's on hand, it's good as an acid rinse.  I personally use dairy milkstone remover as the acid cleaner and rinse in my brewery, because it's dirt cheap compared to phosphoric acid + surfactant products of identical composition marketed as brewing supplies, but Star San also contains phosphoric acid and surfactants.  Iodophor is my sanitizer, but it needs to be preceded by an acid rinse after alkaline cleaners anyway, as any alkaline residue will affect its effectiveness.  Again, white vinegar will work as a rinse too, but lacking a surfactant, it may be less effective, requiring a full soak.

In my opinion and experience, that's unnecessary overkill.  Simplify...get rid of stuff that doesn't really matter.  Reality often astonishes theory.

My routine is based on experience.  Others may find things work differently, probably a lot depends on your water.  And when your guy from the manufacturer of BTF iodophor joined us a while back, he mentioned the part about alkaline cleaner residue and iodophor, so I believed him.

As I said, there's theory and then there's real life.  We're hobbyists, so do what you like!  I haven't found it necessry so I won't bother.

[ynotbrusum]

And what's the purpose of StarSan if you aren't actually sanitizing?

If it's the acid product that's on hand, it's good as an acid rinse.  I personally use dairy milkstone remover as the acid cleaner and rinse in my brewery, because it's dirt cheap compared to phosphoric acid + surfactant products of identical composition marketed as brewing supplies, but Star San also contains phosphoric acid and surfactants.  Iodophor is my sanitizer, but it needs to be preceded by an acid rinse after alkaline cleaners anyway, as any alkaline residue will affect its effectiveness.  Again, white vinegar will work as a rinse too, but lacking a surfactant, it may be less effective, requiring a full soak.

In my opinion and experience, that's unnecessary overkill.  Simplify...get rid of stuff that doesn't really matter.  Reality often astonishes theory.

My routine is based on experience.  Others may find things work differently, probably a lot depends on your water.  And when your guy from the manufacturer of BTF iodophor joined us a while back, he mentioned the part about alkaline cleaner residue and iodophor, so I believed him.

I encountered beer stone in my kegs after a decade plus of use - I soaked the kegs in milkstone remover for a few days and the beer stone was gone.  I would not have noticed the beer stone, had I not had an infected batch that caused me to inspect fermenter (a stainless kegmenter) and dispensing kegs with a bright light and feeling the slight roughness on the inside of the vessels.  Scrubbing did not work entirely, so the acid soak was done and it worked perfectly. 

I think the level of beerstone might be based on the water composition, time in the dispensing keg, or the typical beer style - but that is just a WAG.  It is possible that the kegs came to me with some of the stone in place, but I have no way of knowing, as I did not inspect them that closely when I got them - I cleaned them thoroughly and used to break them down totally each time, but I did not notice any stone until this past year.  Now they are clean as a whistle.